Neuro-inclusion for the Neuro-distinct with neurodivergent entrepreneur Will Wheeler

In this final episode for the 2021 season, Lou and Will discuss Will's lived experience as a young neurodivergent person living with Dyslexia and probable ADHD.  Will explains the rollercoaster ride of his younger years and the experience of being misunderstood by everyone around him, struggling with drugs and alcohol and finding his strengths.  It's a discussion of self-discovery and self acceptance.  Will is also super creative and clever and has founded a new organisation called The Neurodiversity Academy, aiming to work with organisations and individuals to achieve "neuroinclusion for the neurodistinct".

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Website: www.squarepegroundwhole.com.au

Resources discussed during this episode: 
1.  The Neurodiversity Academy - https://www.neurodiversityacademy.com/

2. Dr Nancy Doyle - Forbes Magazine:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drnancydoyle/?sh=7f35993017ca

3.  Dr Nancy Doyle - The Genius Within
https://www.geniuswithin.org/our-team/dr-nancy-doyle/

4. Universal Music - Creative Differences
https://umusic.co.uk/creative-differences

5. Dr Helen Taylor
https://youtu.be/Iv29jKg-zek

Transcript

00:00.00
louisekuchel
Okay, looks like we're recording. Do you want to say something or just yep, that seems to register your voice. Okay, we'll start and you know I'm starting with the um welcome to the podcast bid again. Okay okay.

00:01.33
Will
Nice, Ah awesome. Ah, okay, yep, too easy? Yep no problem.

00:17.65
louisekuchel
Welcome to the podcast will wheeler. It's good. Thank you! How is it going for you.

00:18.66
Will
Hi how's it going? Yeah, you know it's Friday afternoon I'm um, you know getting closer to Christmas now. So I'm just really looking forward to maybe just having some oh well actually I'm looking forward to going up to queensland to see my parents.

00:37.43
louisekuchel
Oh I Hope you can yeah.

00:38.58
Will
So we're 1 step closer to there. Yeah, so do I I really hope they don't close the borders. But besides that um yeah, no, everything's pretty cool.

00:47.29
louisekuchel
Well, that's awesome. I'm glad you're you know, looking forward to the end because ah I can tell you right now I certainly am I'm I'm actually feeling just a little bit burnt out. So I think it's time to to finish up soon.

00:58.80
Will
I think you and probably the rest of the world right? Yeah, totally totally I you know I think the thing is you know I probably haven't been 100 percent lately and.

01:04.51
louisekuchel
Oh and I certainly my kids oh gosh. Yeah.

01:14.40
louisekuchel
O.

01:16.95
Will
Speaking to a lot of other people I think we're all feeling the exact same thing. Um so look I really hope you know, um you know next year we can really hit the ground running and and really I just hope.

01:20.25
louisekuchel
Yeah I think so.

01:33.85
Will
We can start getting back to some kind of normal because we thought 2020 going into 2021 was going to be a bit better, but it seemed to be even worse.

01:42.94
louisekuchel
It was and you know plays real havoc with the Neuro divergent community doesn't it. There's enough on everyone's plate without this going on and on yeah, ah.

01:48.92
Will
It does it does it does it does So you know I think if we can really focus on trying to you know make everything happen and you know really look. Forward to the Future. We could have some really cool things happening.

02:07.87
louisekuchel
Awesome! Well I couldn't agree more. So let's get talking will let's get into your episode I'm really excited to hear more from you Actually you know I think we should confess. Well I should confess. Um, we.

02:21.80
Will
This.

02:26.74
louisekuchel
We actually did record this episode already didn't we um and some weird technical thing that um, we still don't really know what happened but it recorded about a third of your your audio track. So I wasn't able to um.

02:30.41
Will
Yep.

02:44.77
louisekuchel
Download the whole episode. So we're kind of there's going to be a bit of a deja vu feeling here but we'll get through it.

02:47.90
Will
Yeah, totally I'm just I'm just looking at that was just a practice run for us. You know you're a perfectionist you just wanted to get it like perfect. So you know you said hey look that is good but we could do it even better next time. So that's what I'm gonna go with.

03:00.85
louisekuchel
Well got to go got to do better than what was what happened last time that's for sure but not hard to improve.

03:06.22
Will
Yeah, exactly that's it. Why not? you know, especially for your audience. Yeah, that's it Why not for your audience. You only want nothing but the best right.

03:15.30
louisekuchel
Well, that's right? So ah, at least I know I'm going to get the best answers from you today and we're going to have a really good chat. So oh yeah.

03:21.52
Will
You know what funny you say that because there was a few things I was like oh you know what I could have answered that a little bit differently or I could have done that a little bit differently say hey nice. We'll see what happens and yeah, it should be fun. Totally totally.

03:28.37
louisekuchel
Yeah, we all do that. That's right, that's right, all right? Well let's see what you come up with today. So we start with our icebreaker questions. Um as you know. So once again.

03:46.14
Will
Yep.

03:47.43
louisekuchel
Just referring then to the pandemic as we were um when the pandemic is fully over and you think you can travel again and you just mentioned somewhere you want to go soon. Tell me about travel in general like where do you want to go next when things are back to normal.

03:56.50
Will
Yeah.

04:02.25
Will
Yeah, yeah, so obviously I've spoken about um Queensland going back up to brisbane seeing my family that's probably priority. Um, for all of us. Um, and what I mean is like seeing my family and me and vice versa.

04:18.27
louisekuchel
E.

04:20.38
Will
And but you know what I really do want to get um you know back overseas somewhere where we can um, you know if it's um. You know the u k or parts of europe or the United states I'd really like to get over there because over this this time period I've I've spent a lot of time networking and meaning a lot of people online who actually live in those countries so I'm really eager to get over there and. And really start putting myself out there in those countries.

04:52.18
louisekuchel
Um, yeah, it's been an interesting thing we feel like we know a whole lot of people now that we've not actually met. It's It's a funny thing. Yeah.

04:59.86
Will
It is it it and you know what it is funny because like I have so many people overseas like friends sorry overseas that I've never met in person but it feels like we're like really good friends if that makes sense.

05:11.90
louisekuchel
Um, yeah, it's funny. Yeah, it's the side effect of covid.

05:17.18
Will
It is it is and even like yeah but and like when we're on like zoom or or whatever that is It's so surreal that we're sitting here in front of us. Ah like a computer screen and. We're talking to each other like we've known each other for like years type of thing is it's really cool. It's really and you know what? The funniest thing is right? like um, living in Sydney I like you know my partner and I we don't really have too many friends here and.

05:35.80
louisekuchel
Yeah, it's weird.

05:49.41
Will
Sydney we don't know a whole bunch of people and I'm actually just trying to start a a meetup group for Neurodiversity professionals and that's you know neurodistinct people and neurotypical people just to come together and you know meet each other because I just really want to meet. Lots of people because it feels like I know more people overseas than what I do in my own like country almost.

06:12.98
louisekuchel
Well well, that's awesome thing to start? Thank you for starting that up I would like to be included in that. Thanks.

06:16.73
Will
Yeah, it should be pretty cool. Yeah yeah, come along come along. We're thinking about having a wine and cheese um sort of evening at Barangaroo shortly. So if you if you.

06:26.76
louisekuchel
Oh that sounds good. Excellent.

06:30.25
Will
Yeah I just thought it could be cool to because I didn't want to say hey let's go meet at like this nightclub or something like that and then we've got all these people who have sensory issues and all that type of stuff. So I thought maybe somewhere Yes, something relaxed in the open. Um.

06:39.45
louisekuchel
Yeah, true, yeah, something nice. And yeah, yeah.

06:49.88
Will
You know where we can just enjoy the afternoon. Enjoy each other's company and just have some fun.

06:55.23
louisekuchel
That sounds great I'll look forward to hearing more about that. But I better ask you the next question. The next question is if you could have a superpower will what would it be and why.

07:06.23
Will
Yeah, you know I haven't really changed my mind on this question when you asked me this last week and it's still going to be to like be able to heal. People's pain you know like I said last week like you know so with someone like myself who struggles with mental health.

07:17.60
louisekuchel
Yeah.

07:25.88
Will
Um, you know I do a lot of things like exercising and and all that and it and it does it feels so good. But if there was something that I could like if someone could come up and touch me on the shoulder and it cures it without anything like that.

07:37.43
louisekuchel
Yeah.

07:41.62
Will
That would be gold right there. So if I had a superpower That's what I want to be able to do is cure. You know people's pain and just help them to you know, really enjoy every bit of life.

07:51.84
louisekuchel
Well, that's ah, that's a really good 1 to choose I really do like that for so many people I know I can relate to that. That's wonderful and now moving on to the square peg round hole concept. Can you give me a um.

07:58.21
Will
Oh oh.

08:09.48
louisekuchel
You've mentioned some stuff already but can you give me a brief idea of how you relate to that concept.

08:14.40
Will
Yeah, look I'm definitely someone who's different I've always been different and um and I suppose lot different in ah in a bad way. Probably different in is then I've always approached things differently I remember I was in like a. Like ah, a rock sort of heavy metal band back when I was younger and people used to be like. Ah yeah, you know and sorry you know all the other bands used to wear like black and all this and I remember turning up to gigs like wearing like a bright yellow shirt and all that type of stuff and.

08:46.70
louisekuchel
Who the.

08:49.87
Will
You know and some people used to criticize me and all that type of stuff but I used to think you know what? that's who I am you know so I am different you know I do approach things a lot differently to everyone else and you know that's where I'm different type of thing.

08:54.77
louisekuchel
Yeah.

09:03.90
louisekuchel
A Yellow T-shirted Square Peg Love it just needed to twist purple and then excellent. Oh okay, well that's interesting and so just to expand on that a bit more can you tell us a bit more about what.

09:06.95
Will
Yeah, yeah, totally tidally, totally totally. Yeah yeah, totallyally totally.

09:23.33
Will
Um, yeah, um.

09:23.45
louisekuchel
Your younger life was like like what was school like for you. Um, you know what? what? what was it like in the sort of teenage years and coming out of school.

09:31.10
Will
Yeah, yeah, look like I remember you know when I think back and I'm gonna go all the way back and it's really funny because I have a really good memory for things that happened you know I can't even remember when my brother little brother was born and I was only like 2 something you know.

09:48.51
louisekuchel
Now that's something interesting there. Maybe we can come back to that because I've heard other people other neurodivert specific neurodivergencies just talk about that sort of thing. Yes, sorry keep going.

09:50.83
Will
Um, yeah, yeah, totally.

09:58.56
Will
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but like you know, thinking back to say even um, what is a preschool you know I remember in Preschool. It's a lot about you know art and being creative and. And all that and I remember you know dressing up and all that type of stuff and I remember like thinking back to those days. How awesome it was and all that and I remember even going to school or the first day of school and I remember Mom being like real excited and all that type of.

10:20.11
louisekuchel
E.

10:35.30
Will
Thing and um I was thinking what's going on type of thing I had no idea what was going on and then I went to school and it was just such a complete change from what my life used to be to now what my life is now like I just didn't get.

10:47.26
louisekuchel
He.

10:53.10
Will
A lot of the things that they were doing a lot of the time and I remember in um, in you know grade 1 just sitting there not knowing what I was doing and my teacher breathing down my neck you know and.

11:08.23
louisekuchel
We.

11:10.88
Will
I Remember like tears building up in my eyes just thinking I seriously don't know what I'm doing here and I'm getting in trouble for it. You know so that that was quite hard and then I remember I was like I remember 1 time I especially in um, in grade 1

11:17.92
louisekuchel
Oh yeah.

11:29.20
Will
Um, so it really didn't start off too. Good. Um, we had to we we were learning about the number 1 and we had to put like we had to like get the glue and make like a 1 and then put sand over it so you could see like the 1 and then you had to paste a picture of. A um of 1 1 pitcher next to that number 1 and I was like oh okay, cool. So I found this olden day car and I I put it there and I was like oh this picture actually looks like doesn't look. You know that great. Thought and then I found a little teddy bear and I cut the Teddy bear out and I put the teddy bear into the car so it looked like it had a driver and I thought oh I'm going to go up and show my teacher and I went up and I said oh look here look at what I've done. You know thinking should'd be oh wow, that's great. And oh my god she blew her top and she like dragged me up the front of the class in front of everyone and I remember her saying okay everyone this is the example of arousing and I'm thinking what the hell's going on. Um and then she just went.

12:36.31
louisekuchel
Do.

12:40.25
Will
Ball stick at me in front of the whole class at the top of the voice yelling and I'm sitting standing there thinking what's going on what have I done wrong here and then I just burst into tears and you know, um then you know kids were like oh you were crying in front of the class and and all this type of stuff.

12:51.20
louisekuchel
Wow.

12:57.60
louisekuchel
Oh gosh.

13:00.16
Will
But I remember that clearly and then you know I remember that was really the first part of you know, really realizing that you know I just struggled I really struggled. And you know I was great at so many things like I would do so I'd have this great imagination and all these things and sport and all that. But you know when it came to to those types of things I was really made to be made to look stupid type of thing. So obviously as.

13:30.15
louisekuchel
In.

13:33.75
Will
Um, you know as I went through primary school same thing happened different class different teacher and you know I started to become rebellious I started to argue back and you know teachers would throw stuff at me or I'd throw stuff back at them. You know I was.

13:44.45
louisekuchel
A.

13:52.61
Will
You know a real you know bit of a rebel. You could probably say but you know if if I didn't stand up. They would just treat me like crap all the time. Um, so that was that was the person I became for a long time and um, you know you could probably say I didn't take no crap from no 1 type of thing.

14:00.59
louisekuchel
Yeah.

14:12.90
Will
So you know that happened all the way through primary school I did have some good teachers along the way who were really good and supportive of what I who I was and what I did and I did well in some classes. Um, but you know even during high school it. It was the same you know.

14:29.70
louisekuchel
We.

14:31.36
Will
I'd have problems with teachers Again, there were some good teachers and you know it was just this vicious cycle year after year after year and yeah, it just takes its toll after time. Yeah, yeah, so I think it was grade four I was.

14:38.44
louisekuchel
Yeah, and was anybody diagnosing anything or like what? yeah.

14:50.61
Will
Could have been grade for a grade 3 I really can't remember. But yeah I was um, diagnosed with Dyslexia in Grade like I said I think it was grade 3 or four I really can't remember and um yeah I was diagnosed with dyslexia and it was interesting because.

15:01.48
louisekuchel
Um.

15:10.36
Will
When I was diagnosed it was we identified that I had a very high iq so I was like in the top ten percent of students at my age and you know my mom's like oh you know? Well, you're you're very, you're a very intelligent person extremely intelligent. Um, you know you're supposed to be some brilliant type of person type of thing and but then when I go back to school I was still failing miserably. My teachers hated me and I really just didn't get that and I think I just slipped. Deeper and deeper into this self you know disbelief or you know no confidence in who I was or what I could achieve if I did have that you know desire to want to achieve something so you know that was probably a real setback for for a while there.

16:05.77
louisekuchel
Um.

16:07.60
Will
Um, but yeah that that's just that was what it was like.

16:12.73
louisekuchel
It's so disheartening and you know you would think that we were talking about something from a really really long time ago and that these days Everything's gotten better and it's not like that for kids. But.

16:18.47
Will
Um, ah no, um, yeah.

16:25.88
louisekuchel
We know that that's not the case we have more knowledge now I mean obviously you're twice exceptional or something like that and do you think that's got to do with you know what? I'm was referring to before with the memory you know and and intelligence I mean we know now that being dyslexic.

16:37.70
Will
Um, ah of of or ah.

16:44.38
louisekuchel
We used to call it illiterate and awful things like that and and think people were slow and you know, awful, Awful. We know that's not true now and do you think that this memory is like. You know how you can remember so much more. Do you think that that's like ah, almost like not a compensation but what what is that? tell me what you think that is.

17:02.52
Will
Yeah, it could be something like that like you know and and this was the funniest thing like when I was made out to be this stupid person in school I never felt stupid if that makes sense ah because like I would do.

17:19.33
louisekuchel
Mm.

17:21.50
Will
So many things and I was so creative and I was a real leader in what I did a lot of the time and you know you know there there were a lot of people who did like who I was as a person and you know it it I don't know it just um.

17:30.95
louisekuchel
M.

17:38.65
Will
I Really don't know the memory thing to tell you the truth. It's It's just been something I've always because I remember I would expla and I could like break things down to like I'd speak to my mom about something and I would break it right down because a lot of the time and this is the thing.

17:43.51
louisekuchel
It's interesting though. Yeah.

17:57.32
Will
Some people will try to you know lie about something and I'm like hang on no, don't you remember this this this and this and I can even break it down into what when a person walked through a room or what was sitting on a table.

18:11.37
louisekuchel
Wow! yeah.

18:14.41
Will
And things like that where other people just wouldn't know that type of stuff. So yeah.

18:16.98
louisekuchel
Yeah I think that's fascinating I Really do and I reckon. There's so many kids that are misunderstood that are like you. There's There's so many like you out there isn't there and can you talk a little bit more about how this.

18:23.94
Will
Ah, yeah, totally Ah, totally.

18:35.63
louisekuchel
Your self-identity has developed. You know how how authentic do you feel? you are these days compared to those traumatic days of finishing school and and what happened next.

18:36.44
Will
And.

18:46.58
Will
So so what? what? So what? do you mean these days I How do I feel these days or Mike m.

18:51.17
louisekuchel
Oh um, I guess like a lot of what we talk about on the podcast is about your authentic self your identity and accepting yourself as a neurodivergent person ah with a strengths-based lens.

19:03.35
Will
Um, approach. Yeah yeah.

19:08.72
louisekuchel
And so I'm I'm wondering how you got from feeling like this stupid kid who was having so many problems in their life and and developing mental ill health and those things to today. How did you come on that journey because I mean I'm thinking of people listening who? um.

19:11.95
Will
Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

19:27.14
louisekuchel
Have teenage kids or kids who have been experiencing school can't and all of these things that are happening today with the education system is just not going in a positive direction. How did you overcome all of those barriers.

19:31.42
Will
Mm Yeah, totally yeah, totally totally ah look you know the the journey has been so difficult and even building this. Like my business is so difficult in Itself. There's times when I'm like really up and then there's times when I'm really down but like it's you know I think the biggest thing for me was you know once I left school. You know I had you know I had a huge you know I developed ah a really huge drug problem. Before I ended school. Um and that was because like it I could just black out what everything was bothering me and and it wasn't the right direction to go and you know I Really wish that maybe at school there had a been you know more direction. For me back in those days where um, you know now I've identified that there's you know you can take so many different pathways once you leave school but you know I think the thing that really changed me was that once I finished school I still had you know. My drug and alcohol problem was was a real problem. Um, and I had that for probably 10 years probably hot The the hardest 1 was probably trying to you know Kick Alcohol. Don't get me wrong I Still enjoy having like a wine here and there but back when I was younger. It was like okay I've got to have a wine but I've got to be Drunk. You know where now I can have a wine to relax and maybe I could have 1 or 2 glasses and be right? You know or I could be out somewhere and have a glass of wine and then.

21:07.64
louisekuchel
M.

21:21.10
Will
You know, be fine to you know, go that's enough for me I need to drive home type of thing you know, but back when I was younger was like oh I'm leaving the car here I'll sort it out tomorrow and just get completely blind rotted drunk.

21:24.74
louisekuchel
Who.

21:34.94
Will
So you know it was. It was very difficult for a long time there and and I think a big thing that was hard for me was my environment. You know I I got to a point that especially after school I got I got a job working in a warehouse just unloading containers. And then I got my forklift license and then you know built my way up to supervisor and then you know I was up to like a management type role by the age of 21 which is quite young at the time and you know it it really was um. What's the word I'm looking for you know and I even remember back in those days thinking to myself. You know I would approach things a lot differently to everyone else and I was like you know because I'm dyslexic I have to approach things differently and I was like yeah but I'm still getting things done really? well. And then I remember people used to say to me oh my god well it blows me away how well you do everything here and and all this and I and I remember thinking to myself thinking you know what you know? Yeah I can do this pretty well here. But you know I'll never. Do anything else besides this because I'm dyslexic and you know I could never go and do extra study so I was my own worst enemy there for a long time. But then I got to a point in my life where I had a few things happen and I was really down at the time I was my.

22:51.13
louisekuchel
The.

23:07.42
Will
Drug habit was just going through the roof and like I would just remember thinking to myself you know I've real I've really got to do something I needed something new I needed something fresh and I just said to myself. That's it. Um I'm going to go traveling over. Over the world you know and I pretty much saved up a whole bunch of money sold my car packed up my stuff and just moved overseas to to the uk where I knew absolutely no 1 and just started living over there and working. So. You know I think that was a huge part of my life because you know for the first time in my life I I had to stand on my own 2 feet I think for a long time. Um I was running back to mum and dad going. Oh. You know, can you help me with this or they would be telling me when I needed to pay bills and and all of that type of stuff so you know it had really taught me to to really stand on my own 2 feet and you know. It gave me a lot of confidence especially in who I was as a person because I really learned especially overseas because I had to make new friends that um I was a cool person. You know people liked who I was not that. People I hung around with in australia thought I was a cool person but I'd got into a point where I wasn't really meeting new people and all that type of stuff and I was just like it was. It was all new to me and and it was just really cool and fun. And and I and I got my mojo back again, you know and I was like you know what? and I remember sitting overseas there thinking. Okay when I get back? What am I going to do you know and it just so happened when I was overseas I got offered this really good job to.

24:50.63
louisekuchel
In.

25:09.54
Will
Be training people in business and leadership and how to like run warehouses and all that type of stuff and I was like hi. Yeah I could do that and and and then and like part of it was like yeah you're going to have to travel all over Australia to do it and I was like oh. All right? that sounds pretty cool I'll get to travel everywhere and see all of Australia and all that and then that's where I really started to develop you know I was now you know in an environment where it was a professional environment I was probably around people who.

25:30.98
louisekuchel
Um.

25:48.40
Will
Um, you know we're very positive in in a lot of areas so it really built my um, my confidence there and I did and I noticed that I started to change but the only problem was I was still hanging out with the saying people.

26:00.39
louisekuchel
M.

26:06.57
Will
So I was still involved heavily with drinking alcohol a lot on the weekends. Um, even during the week sometimes I would you know we'd have drug binges some weekends. Um you know and I and the thing was I was my career was really going up. But you know I learned that you know I had to change that environment altogether if I really wanted to excel so that was where I got to a point where I was like that's it I need to get rid of my friends I need. They're lovely people you know, but.

26:40.57
louisekuchel
E.

26:43.28
Will
I Yeah um I had if I wanted to you know, really get somewhere in my life I really had to change my environment so that was a key point and it's really funny now when I explained to people what I used to be like and. And all that because back back before I went overseas like I had dreadlocks like all the way down to my backside. Yeah yeah, all that type of stuff and you know I was ah I was really out there and um, yeah, yeah I could send you through some photos. Yeah yeah, totally totally.

27:00.97
louisekuchel
Oh Wow Ah right? Yeah, maybe we should show some photos when we to show the progression. Yeah, interesting.

27:17.80
Will
And it it was um yeah once I changed that environment. It was really it was really interesting because you know people people used to call me, you know all these not not nasty names. But you know things like stoner will and.

27:33.25
louisekuchel
Yes, yes, making us non your light driving a kombies making weird. Yeah yeah.

27:35.15
Will
And all these types of things and then yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and then when I you know developed and all this and I explained to people what I used to be like people would be like what are you serious and I'm like what can't you see that.

27:49.14
louisekuchel
Who who? and.

27:53.63
Will
And I'm thinking I'm just a completely different person Now you know so that was a huge big turning point for me back then changing my environment who I was around. Yeah, totally you know? um.

28:01.46
louisekuchel
Environment. Yes I can hear that's a key thing changing the environment which is what this podcast is about as well. And yeah, sorry oh I was just going to ask you? um you know I know we talked about this last time that.

28:12.00
Will
Yeah, and yes, sorry you guys.

28:21.10
louisekuchel
and and I mentioned that I always think of my son because he's 18 and going through these years right now and I I would love to know what you think um, parents listening teachers listening and people who are working with um.

28:23.17
Will
Um, both.

28:40.10
Will
Um, thus.

28:40.30
louisekuchel
Kids who are like you were um what they can do because it's like watching a train wreck. You can't fix things You can't um you know you can't tell them what to do they know best and you know you can't just make them what you want them to be. They're their own person.

28:44.73
Will
Are Ah a. Um, and.

28:58.71
louisekuchel
But you also can see so many things that need to happen for them to shine. How can we? What do you think? what was missing for you or what? what do you see now in young neurodivergent people that you're working with now which I know we're going to get to more of that.

29:11.72
Will
Yeah, yeah, yeah, look I often think about this because I'm not a parent myself and I suppose I need to sort of approach it from like my perspective and and what it was like when I was that age and like. I suppose you know, young kids especially around 18 and all that type of stuff They don't want their parents telling them what to do my parents. My parents used to tell me what to do and you know I would probably do the opposite a lot of the time you know and.

29:34.29
louisekuchel
No.

29:42.61
louisekuchel
E.

29:44.90
Will
Not that's not to say my parents are lovely. My parents are the you know the best parents out. Well for me, they they be the best parents. You know what I mean and um, you know and I don't think the way that they parent the parented was was bad at all. They were very supportive even when I was going through.

29:49.47
louisekuchel
Yeah, that's great. Yeah yeah.

30:04.50
Will
Um, those tough times with like my drug and alcohol abuse and all that they were. They were always still supportive in in what I'd done type of thing. Um you know and and it's so Hard. It's so hard to sort of say. What we should do exactly because everyone's different. You know my personality could be different to say your son's for example I I you know and it was really funny because my partner and I were actually talking yesterday and she was talking about how she went to school with this. Um.

30:22.68
louisekuchel
Um, of course. Yeah, yeah.

30:39.18
Will
This young girl and and she's this young girl's probably like 30 something now. But you know this girl got all these great grades she studied and became like a like a physiotherapist or something like that and um. She got involved with the wrong crowd. She had a huge drug addiction was caught with like a ridiculous amount of like drugs in a hotel and was sent to Jail for a while um you know she had a kid to. Someone and you know her life went completely off rails type of thing. Um and you know I think and and I've seen I'd seen a lot of that especially when I was growing up as well and you know some people do have those real addictive personalities where you know. Sometimes it's hard to get them back from whatever direction they're heading in type of thing. But you know for myself I think I've always not had an addictive personality. It's probably because I don't know I'd always get to a point where I was like you know what? I'm I'm.

31:40.39
louisekuchel
M.

31:54.24
Will
Sick of this now and like like I didn't mention it before but there's I have a high feeling that I'm 80 h d as well. You know so I don't know if that's part of my eighty h d that you know that whole drug addiction thing just didn't become fun anymore. Um.

32:00.50
louisekuchel
E.

32:12.15
Will
And I just got sick of it type of thing. But you know that was that was sort of what I got to. But I think like the thing was my parents were always supportive all the way you know and they still are especially with my mental health I'm always speaking to mom and my dad.

32:21.53
louisekuchel
Um.

32:29.65
Will
When I'm sort of down and all that type of stuff so you know really having that place where I can feel comfortable to talk about those things part of me is really important. So it is really hard to answer that question just because everyone's different.

32:36.73
louisekuchel
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I understand but I yeah but you are giving an answer and that helps us because I just feel it's really hard for us to hold our nerve.

32:48.67
Will
Yeah.

32:53.66
Will
Um, yeah.

32:54.79
louisekuchel
To be honest, you know when it's your own child and I'm sure other people would agree with me. It's It's really really hard when it's your own child to just sort of take that deep breath and go I can't control this I have to just let them grow up but then be there to support them.

33:06.75
Will
And and you know and I think that was the thing I think you know I especially like I was the oldest so you know my parents were learning a lot with me. They were learning a hell of a lot and you know I think.

33:19.82
louisekuchel
E e.

33:26.29
Will
Um I I think they probably did just get to a point where they just had to let me do what I needed to do type of thing. Um, because at the end of the day you know there's only so much you can do if that makes sense.

33:36.12
louisekuchel
Mm.

33:40.47
louisekuchel
Yeah, would there have been anyone else. You would have listened to any other role models or were there was there any of those sort of what we call lighthouse teachers anyone that was there that you looked up to or you respected.

33:55.91
Will
Um, you know at that point in time I don't think there was you know it was all it was work which I really didn't like because it was an environment where the bosses would. You know yell at you if they were in a bad mood or you know it was. It wasn't a good environment to be working in so you know I wasn't I didn't have too many role models in regards to that period of my life where you know you could go work in some workplaces.

34:20.98
louisekuchel
M.

34:33.15
Will
And you've got heaps of great role models which was probably what I had when I come back from overseas I had all these great role models who were really great people and really showed me that hey you know you are a great person type of thing. But back then you know.

34:48.96
louisekuchel
Um.

34:52.52
Will
You know, especially after I left school I was I was off rails. You know I was off the rails and I just you know I'm just trying to think back to it. You know it was just pretty much about hanging out with and and this was the thing like when you're in that environment you're hanging around people.

34:55.98
louisekuchel
M.

35:10.83
Will
Not because you like them. You're hanging around with people because they might be able to help you score certain types of drugs and all that so I remember sitting back thinking. Why am I hanging out with this idiot This person's ah ah you know I don't like this person but you know you're hung out with them because.

35:16.19
louisekuchel
We.

35:25.56
louisekuchel
Didn't yeah.

35:29.42
Will
They were able to score for you or whatever like that and you know I look back at it now and it's just like oh my God Just so it's almost depressing when I think about it. So um.

35:31.20
louisekuchel
Yeah.

35:36.46
louisekuchel
Just amazing though. Amazing How far you've come. Maybe we should move a bit more to that talking about um, like employment and your passion and interest and.

35:49.33
Will
Um. Um, this is.

35:55.40
louisekuchel
And where you're headed with the neurodiversity academy um, actually our discussion today has been a bit different which I'm glad actually because it's you've yeah I want to still talk about this that. Yes, this has been an interesting experiment in a way.

36:02.60
Will
Yeah, it has been. It's it's a bit of a different a bit of a different vibe isn't it. Yeah.

36:14.69
louisekuchel
But um, yeah, wonderful to hear all of that because I know for a fact that people listening will know young people neurodivergent people.

36:21.72
Will
Ah, the.

36:25.80
louisekuchel
Who are growing up and going through that. So I think what you just shared is just so helpful and so insightful and thank you very much because you opened yourself right up there and it's really appreciated. Um, but thinking a bit more about like you've you've moved now with all this life experience and.

36:28.16
Will
Um, kind of um.

36:43.40
louisekuchel
Um, understanding your neurodiversity and your neurodivergent conditions. Um, you know you've developed this neurodiversity Academy Can you tell us about why? why have you done this and and what is it about.

36:45.50
Will
The.

36:56.99
Will
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so so pretty much what the neurodiversity academy is it's it's going to be a career institute and you know we want to help people get qualified in certain areas. We want to help people get. Um, you know, really good jobs. You know, get that started in really good jobs. You know we want to educate people around you know neurodiversity you know, hold events conferences all that type of stuff and really open people up to what neurodiversity is. Now 1 of the biggest things and this is the reason why I've sort of headed in this direction was um, you know my background like I spoke about before is is training an education and 1 of the things that I noticed when I was. Um, you know, especially when you're when you're employed in training and education you um you pretty much get qualifications thrown at you um to complete so you know I remember you know I had hardly any qualifications when I first started now I've got. You know that many qualifications I couldn't even name you all for what I've got which I never thought I would ever say at 1 point but I remember when I um, you know, especially when I started to you know cause what I used to do I used to do a lot of like motivational talks around. Being dyslexic and you know career progression and all that type of stuff and so you know I started to become a real. You could probably say champion. Um, for you know the correct support and even knowing our rights and responsibilities as well. So if someone doesn't. Present me something correctly. Um you know I will say hey look no I need it like this or hey look I've got this problem. What can we do to to solve that and yeah, yeah, yeah, oh I was actually about to get to that. But that's okay.

38:58.92
louisekuchel
Can you give us an example of that like what someone might give you a oh sorry.

39:07.38
Will
No, that's all cool. That's all cool. So for example I remember like when um and and this has happened plenty of times I had this job and I said look you know they were doing all this stuff by like email and I I just knew to myself I am going to stuff this up. You know because it was just in a way that wasn't um, wasn't to my strengths type of thing and I remember saying to my boss at the time I said look I'm dyslexic I do struggle with certain things. Um, you know, um. So um, might need I might need help in certain areas and all this type of thing and um so I remember and she's like yeah yeah, not a problem. Let us know and blah blah blah and then so you know there was a few times where I'd go up to people in the workplace and I'd be like look. Um, can we find another way that I can do this because I'm dyslexic I really struggle with that way and that pretty much just ignore me and then just keep you know, just pretty much say no, just do it this way because this is how we all do it and I remember sitting there thinking. I had a few swear words and in my mind. Oh and I won't repeat what I said in my mind but um, you know I was just really ticked off that there was no consideration for what it is they could do to help me.

40:24.40
louisekuchel
Since.

40:36.54
Will
And then you know I remember speaking to my boss and saying look I want to learn some new things. Can you give me some more responsibilities and you know I remember the boss was like okay we're having a meeting well we'll get you to do the meetings minutes and I'm thinking you're giving me the meetings Minutes.

40:54.20
louisekuchel
Um, yeah.

40:55.00
Will
You know and what I learned was you know a lot of people just don't get neurodiversity and if you haven't been trained or you're not you know Neuro divergent yourself or you know you're not um. You know you don't have an understanding of it. So For example, a parent would probably have a very good understanding of it compared to someone who has nothing to do with that side of things you know you're not gonna understand it. You know so that was 1 thing that really stood out to me and I was like.

41:20.60
louisekuchel
M m.

41:27.67
Will
And I even remember sitting at work 1 day and I was like ah and and that was that was another thing because I was starting to get into business and I was starting to like build my businesses and all that and I remember I'd employ business coaches and all that. And I used to like go to my business coaches and say look I got this great idea. Um I Want to do this and then they're like oh no, no no, you can't do that and I'm thinking why? not you know? and and I was like I Really wish I could meet a business coach who was like.

41:54.58
louisekuchel
And.

42:02.41
Will
Neurodists distinctct too understood who I was maybe able to introduce me to some tools that can help me succeed um you know and when I mean tools I mean like things like grammarly or you know certain text to Speech or vice versa or whatever you know.

42:10.17
louisekuchel
E. A.

42:20.51
louisekuchel
Um, yeah.

42:21.77
Will
And there was just nothing I would Google it there was nothing I was like oh you know it was really frustrating so that was where I was sort of like you know what? I'm I'm gonna try and like become that you know I'm gonna have to find out what it is I need and and all those types of things and then I want to um, you know crew.

42:36.34
louisekuchel
He.

42:41.59
Will
Create that So as I sort of started to research it more and put myself out there. You know I started to realize that you know what was involved and you know I learned more about the Neurodiversity Community. What wasn't happening what workplaces weren't happening. And then even within um, the training and education space I was starting to learn that you know I would you know apply to do a course in something like say I don't know let's say a diploma of leadership for example and then as part of like signing up. You would have to state if you have a disability or anything like that and you know I made sure I ticked that box and then wrote in there. Yes I'm dyslexic I'm going to need to have extra help now when someone actually marks that. As per like the disability discrimination act and I can't remember the like the disability discrimination act in education or whatever it's called um I remember it like says that if someone marks that they've got a disability before the course.

43:42.52
louisekuchel
Yep. Yeah, yeah.

43:56.11
Will
Someone has to approach the student and find out what they need help with where they might struggle and then during that the whole time they need to have reasonable adjustments in place and they need to have constant support all during that journey.

44:08.53
louisekuchel
Use.

44:15.15
Will
And you know a lot nearly it sorry not a lot but every time I signed up for something you know nothing would happen I would start the class thinking. Okay, no, 1 ne's approached me about anything and and you know this and that and then.

44:23.26
louisekuchel
E.

44:34.65
Will
You know I was just like oh my God and then what I would do then because I knew my rights I knew my responsibilities I'd then be like send them the disability discrimination act I'd be like and I'd kick up a stink just to prove a point. Um I'm like yeah you guys don't have a clue I said.

44:48.48
louisekuchel
Oo oo.

44:53.95
Will
His I and I'd send them my enrollment form and it's got like everything on there I said you've got this as per the disability discrimination act. You haven't done this. You haven't done that oh we We didn't know and I said yeah you did It's right on the it's right on the form here.

45:05.90
louisekuchel
Um, yeah, yeah.

45:10.55
Will
And it's like oh then it would just be getting palmed off to other people. So I got to a point where I started to realize that you know a lot of these education places have no idea what to do when? um you know, certain people who may have maybe you know Neurod distinctc.

45:29.56
louisekuchel
Um, yeah.

45:30.31
Will
What to do and I was like I'm like okay you know what I might do I might start my own you know college where we can. It's set up around. Um, neurodist distinctct people. So you know if someone comes to learn with us. There's not going to be this oh. My god I need to I don't know what I'm doing or you know it's they're going to feel comfortable. They're going to be in this environment where um. People know what it it is what they need so what we want to do but me we want to actually instead of um, the student adapting to the learning. We want to adapt to the student. For example, so the other way around. So a student may have the option. So for example, my friend she's eighty h d and if I send her a video recording about ah a teaching or something that we've done she just struggles with that big time. So what we'll do a lot of the time is send the transcript. And then we'll like put the powerpoints in that transcript and then she'll just read and she's actually a speed reader and she will go through that within four minutes and it could be a half hour like transcript and she knows every little bit about that so that works for her. Do you know what? I mean.

46:43.26
louisekuchel
Um, ah right? Wow Yeah, that's her strength he views there? Yeah yeah.

46:57.72
Will
Yeah, so and you know so so this is where it's like okay and you know what to get the transcript. It's not actually that difficult. Um, you just have to run it through like things like otter and stuff like that where it just converts it directly.

47:03.79
louisekuchel
Um, yeah you you know these technologies. Um.

47:12.91
Will
Yeah, exactly you know so it's not that difficult to have these reasonable adjustments I think just what the problem is with a lot of these schools is that they don't know what the reasonable adjustments are you know, getting a student to stay back later and you know sit there doing the same thing and reading it slower that.

47:27.43
louisekuchel
Yeah, yeah, look what what? I'm hearing here is there's I've written down 3 words I've written down recruitment adjustments.

47:32.68
Will
Not the answer to you know and I mean yeah, yep, yeah yeah.

47:44.89
louisekuchel
And adjustments and self-advocacy and to me those 3 words can be used in the like school education environment and also what you've been talking about which is the employment environment.

47:54.51
Will
Are a a a a a a.

48:02.16
louisekuchel
Um, recruitment just gets replaced with gatekeeping and gatekeeping is what happens on enrolment to schools for children with Disabilities. So the recruitment discrimination that happens at that stage. Is just like when a school says sorry we can't cater for your child and they can't come to this school so to me, it's like you've identified that again. It's very similar to what Samantha nutddle was discussing and I know you know she was on the podcast a few episodes ago and I called at the new frontier.

48:20.98
Will
Yep.

48:27.18
Will
A.

48:34.87
louisekuchel
This is the new frontier of what happens after school. Um, this is it keeps going guys. It doesn't it doesn't stop. We have to keep advocating. We have to help our kids to learn how to self-advocate and we have to utilize groups like this neurodiversity academy to um.

48:36.74
Will
Um, it does.

48:54.43
louisekuchel
Provide that support And yeah.

48:55.46
Will
Well, the the thing is I think the thing is that you know a big thing when I was in school it was like look if you don't do well in School. You're you know you're never going to be able to go to university you're never going to get a good job. You know all this type of garbage and it's like. You actually can. There's just actually different routes. You might have to take and it was really funny because I do volunteer work on Friday nights and I was talking to someone about the exact same thing and I had never even spoken to her about what I do and she said yeah like.

49:17.71
louisekuchel
Yes.

49:32.25
Will
No 1 cares about like what grade you got once you finish. Maybe they'll care a few months after but really once you get into the big wide world of work and all that no 1 cares, you know and like and it's like yeah exactly you know so this is where you know, um.

49:35.91
louisekuchel
Yeah. Yeah, yep. In.

49:52.60
Will
And this is what we want to try to do like maybe someone does want to go to University so through our career institute. We might be able to provide certain qualifications that will help them get their foot in the door to University if they didn't get the marks they thought they were going to get um you know we want to help.

50:07.65
louisekuchel
So yeah, yeah, brilliant.

50:10.32
Will
We want to help people get recruited into you know, good high paying jobs Eventually you know like we've all got to start from the ground up. But if they can get their foot in the doors somewhere you know we want to do that rather than going. Okay, um.

50:18.22
louisekuchel
Yes, yeah.

50:27.23
Will
Your dyslexic So we're going to get you a job in I don't know construction not that construction's bad. But like if someone's capable of doing bigger things. Why not try to help them get into those areas you know.

50:33.81
louisekuchel
No, but yeah.

50:41.44
louisekuchel
I got you and I understand what you're saying 100 percent yeah it's about not narrowing the the future aspirations based on disability because that's discriminatory and ableist.

50:45.19
Will
And build it from there. Mm.

50:52.81
Will
Yeah, well I've got friends I've got friends. Yeah I've got friends who failed school and they're doctors now. Dear owner means say if you fail school that doesn't mean you you you will never be anything.

51:00.89
louisekuchel
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I Know people as well. Yeah, yeah, oh this This is wonderful. Yes, right.

51:09.70
Will
There's just different routes you go. There's just different routes. You've got to take you know and we we want to. We want to discuss what those routes are you know and make that possible not just discuss it.

51:20.99
louisekuchel
So is that how it's going to work. You're going to take on clients as such like what do like thinking of the people that are listening to us now where does this fit into their life.

51:26.54
Will
Um, yeah, yeah, good question. So what we really want to do is really get. We really want to get the large corporate organizations on board first because what we want to do is. So for example, if we were to say okay, we want to set up the college first right we get all these people qualified. Um, you know we know that they're brilliant all that. But then we have nowhere to send them to do you know? what? I mean so it's sort of like okay so what we want to try to do is get the corporates.

51:56.93
louisekuchel
All Yeah, yeah, yeah.

52:04.79
Will
Um, board first and what we really want to do is help them build neuroinclusive workplaces first so you know everything's all set up so they've got training of you know and it depends what the workplace wants. Um, you know it could be training of all staff is in. What it is that what a neuroinclusive workplace looks like maybe their management have an understanding the recruitment process. We train them on what the recruitment process is um so a whole range of things need to be done there which will make those workplaces neuroinclusive and to tell you the truth like.

52:32.99
louisekuchel
The.

52:43.71
Will
With a lot of these workplaces. They're probably already doing a lot of things that wouldn't be too difficult to make their workplace a neuroinclusive workplace. So that's what we want to do and then once we identify that yep this workplace is a neuroinclusive friendly workplace.

52:52.21
louisekuchel
Oh.

53:02.70
Will
We will then feel safe sending people there for for jobs. For example, you know because there's no point us just getting whoever and then sending people you know recruiting people as certain companies where they're set up for failure. It's just not going to. You know we're going to be back at square 1

53:18.87
louisekuchel
Um, yeah.

53:22.41
Will
So That's going to be a big process too. But what we want to do as well is find out from these corporates. What job roles they're going to have on offer so we can then potentially do qualifications in those job Roles. So We're sort of. You know working hand in hand with those places and who knows they may even be able to do some work experience with some of these organizations and so forth that? Yeah um.

53:51.81
louisekuchel
Win-win situation and I I love that word neuroinclusive. You come up with your own words I love it. Neuroinclusive neurodistinct.

53:58.83
Will
Ah I don't know if I come I I can't you know you know it's funny like so I've I've had a few people say to me like oh man that word you came up with neurodiversity. That's brilliant I'm like I didn't come up with that. That's been around for.

54:12.78
louisekuchel
No I know you did I know you didn't but you use lots of different words or you might not realize it. But.

54:16.10
Will
Yeah, know and I mean that but it's just budd. Um I think it's just like ah but what what I think it is. It's just um, they're just words that are common to the workplace. Do you know what? I mean and into the corporate world and all that so you know for a lot of people within that corporate space.

54:27.64
louisekuchel
E.

54:35.94
Will
Probably words that um I use quite often Anyway, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, that's pretty Self-explanatory isn't it and and look I think they sound really cool I think neuroinclusive sounds cool. You know yeah know say.

54:38.69
louisekuchel
Yeah, well and they they're easy to understand what they mean you know Neuro? Yeah yeah, yeah, so do I really love it. Ah.

54:55.48
Will
Ah, don't I don't you know I reckon it sounds cool.

54:56.70
louisekuchel
Yeah, well look. That's been very interesting hearing all about that. Thank you so much for sharing that we're kind of getting towards the end now. So um I have 1 final question for you and then of course feel free to talk about if you if you feel we've missed anything. Um.

55:12.92
Will
Um, yeah.

55:15.87
louisekuchel
Like to ask everybody about all all my guests about mentors and books and resources because part of this podcast is not just about chatting but about providing resources. Um and materials for people to use in their own advocacy throughout their life.

55:24.60
Will
Um.

55:33.73
louisekuchel
So can you tell us if you have any I've written some down that you said last time so I'll let you go for it and then if you've forgotten them I'll tell you.

55:37.42
Will
Yeah, yeah, look I think like you know I'm so lucky, especially with our um with Neurodiversity academy I know loads of people all over the world. So I'm really lucky that I've got. Ah, really large network of really knowledgeable people around neurodiversity. So you know I I don't really have like 1 sort of mentor type of thing. But you know I do you know 1 person I really do um I really enjoy reading her. Staff is a lady called Dr. Nancy doyle from the uk she's I'm pretty sure she's eighty h d and I'm not sure she's anything else. But um, she does a lot of research based stuff around lots of different areas of neurodiversity. She's also writes for forbes magazine. So that's published all over the world around neurodiversity. So she's got a really a lot of good stuff and what she shares is right on the money you know she's no, you know she she said she's it's exactly right? What she's saying you know. And it makes you sort of think. Okay, yeah I see where she's coming from. Um, but you know probably 1 ah a really good resource that she released a few years ago I think it was in 2019 um, she was doing a whole bunch of stuff with universal music. And um, they did like all this research about building a neuroinclusive workplace and I think the resources called um, creative. So if you were to google universal music creative differences.

57:27.27
louisekuchel
Yep yep.

57:30.91
Will
It's like this report that you can download for free and it talks about every little step that you could do to set up a neuroinclusive workplace so you know things like getting a committee together having not just. Neurodistinct people getting these things happening but having you know other people who may not know everything about neurodiversity getting involved as well. So you've got like these allies and all that type of stuff. So You know it's It's real and and then she's got she shares a lot of evidence within that type of stuff. So. It's a really good read and I honestly I always like refer that to people when I Yeah um I speak to people. So.

58:10.40
louisekuchel
Right.

58:16.59
louisekuchel
Ryan Yeah, excellent. Well I will look that up and and attach that to the episode I will yeah anything else or anything else. You would like to.

58:23.10
Will
Yeah,, that's probably 1 thing I would probably stick to there please do. No. Honestly I really can't think of too many other things. There's just so many people I know I'm honestly I Just can't wait to to get back into public speaking and all that again shortly and I hope.

58:35.23
louisekuchel
I. Mean.

58:47.19
louisekuchel
E.

58:51.17
Will
Like the cool thing when I was public speaking I used to like speak with like a lot of other really you know, renowned professionals and all that and it was sort of funny when I first started public speaking because I was sharing the stage with like these real world leading doctors and all this type of stuff and it was.

59:10.80
louisekuchel
Um, yeah, you're there for a reason. Yeah.

59:10.48
Will
It was nerve wracking but I'm sort of realized that hang on. You know you, you know some cool stuff as well. Yeah, so it's not so bad anymore. But I'm hoping next year I should be able to really get in touch with some new cool people.

59:26.20
louisekuchel
Well I hope that we can share that I want.

59:29.35
Will
Actually sorry actually it just came to mind another 1 A lady called Dr. helen taylor now she's done a whole bunch of research around like ah neurodist distinct leaders and people within business who have really liked gotten up.

59:35.80
louisekuchel
Okay.

59:49.80
Will
There and they really credit their you know Neuro divergence to you know to the success. A lot of the time. So yeah, she's got some really cool stuff as well. Yeah, totally totally.

59:52.76
louisekuchel
Um. Oh excellent I will look that up as well and I'm not sure if you're on in the um, the Facebook group um or not but we'd I'd love you to be part of the community and and so that you can share. Some of these when you are doing a public speaking tour or whatever it is that you get involved with share information about the neurodiversity academy and how the community can get involved with it because um, it sounds like it's what we need. Yeah, we really need more of this.

01:00:17.57
Will
Are.

01:00:24.60
Will
Yeah, totally well, that's the thing we we really hope to be holding a lot of events next year obviously this year's been a bit of a ride off because of a I don't even have to mention why? but um, um.

01:00:32.70
louisekuchel
Yeah, no.

01:00:41.28
Will
So next year we're really planning to um, hold some events and all that type of stuff so we really hope you know a lot of the community can come and attend and we really want to encourage you know, ah neurotypical people to come and learn about it as well. You know.

01:00:45.15
louisekuchel
Wonderful.

01:00:55.89
louisekuchel
Yes, yeah, yep.

01:00:59.13
Will
I think that's going to be key going forward. Um, it's not just about us is Neuro divergent people convincing us how great we are? um you know, um we really need to convince others. How great we are as well.

01:01:09.44
louisekuchel
Well, that's right, That's right and they are the majority the Neuro those neurotypicals and and it's about inclusion and inclusion means that we all get along together and mix in together. So yeah.

01:01:16.77
Will
Totally it is yeah and understand why we're doing certain things that way or how we can best bring great ideas to our workplaces or whatever that might be.

01:01:28.72
louisekuchel
Yeah.

01:01:32.38
louisekuchel
Yeah, we do have to make it interesting for everybody. It's so true. Yeah, it's important. Yeah, oh well, that's all very good. Um, is there anything else that you wanted to add or do you feel you've covered it.

01:01:36.33
Will
We do We do We do.

01:01:43.65
Will
No I think I've got everything there now I Really can't think of anything else. Not a problem.

01:01:50.72
louisekuchel
That's awesome. Well thank you so much will I'll sign us off you you hang on there for a second but I'll sign us off from the podcast now and thank you. You are my final episode for my first year ever so

01:02:01.97
Will
Yes, say saving the best for last right? Ah, but bus. Yeah, that's it. That's it.

01:02:08.36
louisekuchel
I did I did and you'll be there forever and you know I mean we we recorded it twice so it shows you how much I wanted you on. Thank you so much will I'll sign us off now. Thanks everybody for listening and happy New year

01:02:18.31
Will
That's it. That's it fingers crossed This is all good. Not a problem. Thank you so much.

01:02:27.99
louisekuchel
Bye.