Square Peg Round Whole

Celebrating Lighthouse teacher, Mrs Kindness with parent Tania Waring

November 05, 2021 Lou Kuchel Season 2021 Episode 21
Square Peg Round Whole
Celebrating Lighthouse teacher, Mrs Kindness with parent Tania Waring
Show Notes Transcript

Tania is a lawyer and psychology student.  Other accomplishments are her three sons. Tania and Lou discuss the challenges of being parents to neurodivergent children but they also focus on strategies to understand our square pegs, their journey to self-awareness and self-acceptance.  They also discuss Tania's approach to school to avoid the inability to attend school by building self-esteem and confidence via their special interests such as horse riding and her youngest son's interest in creative writing.  He's even written a book!  Tania is the queen of the co-regulation as well and she articulates all of this in her own special way.  Then they get on to discussing "Mrs Kindness" who is a wonderful "lighthouse" teacher in her son's school.  It's a unique lived experience discussion and they cover a lot of ground. 


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 | Timestamp Speaker Transcript  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 00:00.00 louisekuchel Um  |  settle in as I can edit all this out. Don't you worry I'm the editing Queen now I'm getting quite good. Yeah I know I'm quite quite impressed with myself. Okay  |  so I'll start now and we'll go from there. So.  |   | 
 | 00:00.00 Tania Waring Warm up. Yeah  |  that's right  |  Yeah  |  that's right  |  you must get it I bet you must be getting very clever at it. Yeah.
 | 00:17.67 louisekuchel Welcome to the podcast tanya waring.  |   |   | 
 | 00:18.48 Tania Waring Thank you so much for having me on I have really enjoyed the episodes that you've done so far and I'm looking forward to being a contributor. Thank you.
 | 00:27.74 louisekuchel Oh how exciting? Well um  |  as I warned you about well you know  |  ah this this software I can already see it looks like there may be a delay So I'll edit all this out if it's not working properly. But um  |  yeah  |  that's great and thank you for saying that that's that's.
 | 00:38.64 Tania Waring Um  |  okay.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 00:46.34 louisekuchel Wonderful feedback I'm excited because it's been a very big learning curve for me and I'm really enjoying it. So thanks tanya? um.
 | 00:51.00 Tania Waring I Think it's really important to have lots of voices in this space because the more voices we have in this space The more awareness there is of the diversity of our voices as well and it's not just all lumping us all together in 1 kind of disability or another it's you Know. We've got rich voices and rich stories and let's tell them.
 | 01:11.69 louisekuchel Yeah  |  absolutely and I think that you hit the nail on the head with that I mean coming up with the name for the podcast was probably 1 of the easiest things I've ever done in my life. It always comes back to that I'm always finding memes and I'm always seeing um analogies to the square peg and the round hole all the time and every.
 | 01:21.99 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  absolutely. Swim.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:30.96 louisekuchel All our pegs are different. You know all different shapes. So um  |  definitely want to hear everyone's story. Everyone's lived experience is um  |  absolutely relevant. So let's start with our icebreaker questions. They are always a bit of fun so tanya when this.
 | 01:32.90 Tania Waring Yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:43.78 Tania Waring Are.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:49.16 louisekuchel Well not so horrendous for you because you're in Queensland Pandemic is over. Um  |  so when it's over when do you where do you want to travel when you can travel again and why.
 | 01:56.91 Tania Waring Um  |  well it's it's horrendous up here in Queensland for different reasons. But anyway we're we're in a gilded cage. Okay  |  so when it's it's not that it's different anyway. Ah  |  after it's over.  |   |   |   | 
 | 02:04.86 louisekuchel Um  |  ah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 02:11.17 louisekuchel Yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 02:15.42 Tania Waring I will hopely. The first thing I'm going to do is go to myers and have a bra hitting because I my I just need new bras I don't know if my foods have changed or what's happened but Mate. There's a whole hot mess going on there and I need need to. Something needs to be done. It's become quite critical but I'm a bit I don't want to go in there. Yeah I don't want to go in there because if I go in I might get caught up in some isolation thing which with my family isolation would be a nightmare. Ah she's awful. Yeah  |  yes  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 02:35.53 louisekuchel Ah  |  oh I can relate to that. Ah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 02:44.74 louisekuchel Um  |  oh yeah  |  because she's very strict anything that happens you you're inter lockdown and yeah  |  that's what's going to happen. Well Us New South Wales people will be at the hairdresser when you're in the bras shop getting new bra. But.
 | 02:52.30 Tania Waring Is awful.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 02:57.82 Tania Waring Yeah  |  well  |  that's that's true and then I'm out of here I want to go I want to I want us all to go to Africa that's I was supposed to do it for my fift years and that it's not yeah so it'll probably be in another five years I don't know. But oh that's what I want to do. We've got the money that we've saved up for it and I want to do it.
 | 03:05.88 louisekuchel Ah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 03:12.60 louisekuchel Africa are good on you. Oh well  |  it's not going anywhere so it will happen 1 day. Yeah  |  that's right.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 03:16.36 Tania Waring Yeah  |  yeah  |  no  |  that's right  |  It'll be waiting for us.  |   | 
 | 03:25.80 louisekuchel And my second question for you is if you could have a superpower. What would it be and why.
 | 03:28.63 Tania Waring Well superpower's a funny thing I would like to be able to moderate my own can you have a superpower. We kind of moderate your own behavior better where you can be more even tempered and persuasive rather than.
 | 03:44.15 louisekuchel You can have whatever you want? yeah.  |   | 
 | 03:47.86 Tania Waring That's what I'd like I'd like to give that to myself and then gift it to my son straight away. Yeah ah  |  ah  |  no so I'd like to be much more sort of even in my not you know  |  just um.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 03:50.95 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  co-regulation but it's not always that easy. Yeah I know.  | 
 | 04:03.79 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yes  |  look over you know I relate you know I understand 1 hundred percent. It's so so hard. It's so hard and um  |  it's not just hard for us parents. It's hard for the teachers as well. So yeah  |  absolutely.  |   |   | 
 | 04:06.86 Tania Waring Not reactive. Um  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah for sure. Yeah.  |   |   | 
 | 04:20.68 louisekuchel And so what is your connection to well where we're getting. There aren't we But what is your connection to the Square Peg round hole concept.
 | 04:27.90 Tania Waring Well  |  we have 3 absolutely beautiful boys who are 121314 the first is neurotype with all the second is on the spectrum of autism and the third is living with autism and adhd. So we've got you know a fairly neurodiverse household and we've had to learn a lot about neurodiversity actually in the last decade or so yeah.
 | 04:49.58 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah. Yeah  |  um  |  okay  |  yes  |  well welcome to the Club. We're all in here together. Yeah  |  it is. It's interesting anyway  |  let's put it that way and so to expand on that a little bit more tanya. Can you tell us.
 | 05:00.40 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  and what a good club it is um yeah.  |   |   | 
 | 05:13.45 louisekuchel You know a bit more about your background and your life growing up I know you're not from Queensland and I've already heard that from you where are you from in your family and and tell us a little bit about your professional life as well.
 | 05:17.64 Tania Waring Yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 05:24.76 Tania Waring Um  |  so me and my husband or I should say my husband and I grew up in rural new south wales in um or regional new south wales um  |  in casino the Northern rivers. Yeah  |  and yes  |  that's yes I heard.  |   |   | 
 | 05:36.23 louisekuchel Oh I didn't realize that I'm from Graft Well I was in Graft and yeah I didn't yeah.
 | 05:44.49 Tania Waring That and I thought oh very close to me. Yes  |  and um  |  so we both grew up there. He came up to queensland after school finished and I went down to go to uni in in sydney and so I went to ussw in sydney and lived in Sydney for about 9 years and worked as a.
 | 05:56.27 louisekuchel All right.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 06:03.83 Tania Waring Got my law degrees and worked as a lawyer down there then I moved over to perth with some friends and lived over there for 4 years and then moved to Queensland really sort of to get closer to home again I guess and that's where I met up with.
 | 06:18.33 louisekuchel Me. Okay.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 06:22.13 Tania Waring My husband again we were working for the same firm for a short time and then um  |  we pretty quickly had 3 delicious little men and life really got busy and then you know we had to sort of. The the school. Ah the school diagnosis Experience. You know because it's when things become more apparent and so those diagnoses then even made our world. Go even faster because there's so much going on with appointments and Whatnot. Um.
 | 06:44.15 louisekuchel Um  |  yes.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 06:53.40 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 06:58.78 Tania Waring Yeah  |  so I worked as a lawyer for a long time for 22 years and then I had to give up about be nearly 4 years ago um just because we had so much going on with our third child and I just could not keep working and laws are pretty.
 | 07:00.31 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 07:17.88 Tania Waring You know was hard enough finding. Yeah  |  it was just too hard to to work and and have all the appointments and and look he and trying to meet his needs meant that you know  |  ah he can't do before school care. Can't do after school care that sort of thing. So um  |  yeah  |  so I.  |   |   |   | 
 | 07:19.65 louisekuchel Oh yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 07:30.63 louisekuchel Oh yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 07:35.25 Tania Waring But then I started studying psychology and I finished my undergrad in about 6 weeks and then I'll do honors next year and hopefully go on and do masters. Yeah so mote the goal well look. It's um.
 | 07:44.59 louisekuchel Goodness How many degrees have you gone and they're not easy or quick um to get those qualifications.
 | 07:54.80 Tania Waring No  |  and I did enjoy doing law and I enjoyed being a lawyer but a T What psychology is fascinating and um  |  it really is it's fascinating and I've got a lot to say about certain Adhd and I really enjoyed learning about it and.
 | 07:59.99 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  is it? yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 08:08.74 louisekuchel O.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 08:13.20 Tania Waring Um  |  everything I can relate back to ahd in my study I have done. Um and I I Really enjoy it. The content's fascinating and I've loved being back at uni again and Youy fits well with what? ah you know with our home life because it's you know.
 | 08:21.30 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 08:32.39 Tania Waring There's it's flexible. There's you know about twenty weeks of holidays because John I mean like there's yeah that there's quite you can you can work around this it does yes  |  so yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 08:38.15 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  that's true. Yes  |  which fits with the kids. Yeah  |  yeah  |  now before you keep going I'm just going to talk but I haven't paused. Um  |  where's your microphone.
 | 08:53.88 Tania Waring Ah  |  here is it. Ah I'm spinning things too Echo We've got to stop doing that.  | 
 | 08:56.74 louisekuchel Yeah I'll edit this out but all you can hear is oh like a tv 1 oh oh I see it's hanging down there. Yes  |  yes.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 09:03.79 Tania Waring Ah  |  yeah  |  because it's ah it's on my it's I'll hold it up. Yeah because it's yeah  |  it's it's hanging on my and I'm moving around. So it's yes  |  it's scratching. That's very annoying.  | 
 | 09:16.74 louisekuchel Yes  |  it's okay  |  it's okay  |  don't you worry about a thing I've told you now so that's perfect again. So um  |  so just keep talking I'll eat it all this out.  | 
 | 09:22.19 Tania Waring Yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  okay I'll hold that up there. Yeah so I've um  |  really enjoyed being at uni and it's a great lifestyle to you I Love just being around people who are learning and.
 | 09:35.86 louisekuchel Who who.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 09:40.10 Tania Waring Ah  |  being around so many young people too. It's fascinating to watch them learn and I'm reminded of my own attitude 30 years ago it wasn't quite as studious as it is now and yeah  |  it's it's really good and there's lots to be learned I'd like I want to keep going and become.
 | 09:49.18 louisekuchel Who.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 09:59.15 Tania Waring Registered as a psychologist. Um  |  and that's yeah  |  it'll take a couple of years. So like another 3 years full time. So it's quite the commitment of time but it'll probably work out. Well so far as my um.
 | 10:05.36 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 10:16.13 Tania Waring Situation at home. So that'll probably work in. Well yeah.  | 
 | 10:17.50 louisekuchel Right? Yeah  |  absolutely Well I Really admire you all that study. That's not easy when you dealing with Square pegs in your life. Yeah yeah.
 | 10:26.25 Tania Waring Thanks Lou because it it isn't easy it because it can be quite chaotic and so that's not a great environment for study. But fortunately we're really well we're lucky to have lots of resources. So and and I have that personality of Of. Um  |  ah you know  |  putting far too many things into 1 day. So I don't It doesn't bother me that I've got a million things to do in a day I just am like the determined you know whatever I just keep going and get it all done.
 | 10:49.27 louisekuchel Oh yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 10:57.50 louisekuchel Um  |  no  |  but some people thrive on it. Yeah yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   | 
 | 11:03.47 Tania Waring And that's not everyone's cup of tea. Not everyone is able to do that. Yeah and I enjoy it So I feel busy and I feel I am much happier when I'm studying I feel much less like I'm I'm just the cleaner cook driver. You know.
 | 11:17.62 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 11:23.10 Tania Waring Feel like I'm doing something and that all of this makes more sense because I'm able to use my experiences hopefully to help others who are going to going through these experiences themselves and hopefully I'll be able to use this experience and knowledge. Some greater Benefit. You know it does make it easier to manage what's going on if you think well I will learn from this and it will. It's I'm going through this for a reason so I'm going to be a better practitioner eventually because I've had these experiences and I think.
 | 11:43.40 louisekuchel Ah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 11:52.93 louisekuchel Um  |  yes for a reason? Yes  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 12:02.42 Tania Waring Not just my experiences but listening to podcasts like yours and 2 ps and a podcast obviously but hearing other people's stories about their situation is really helpful because my situation is not universal for people with kids with adhd every family situation is different.
 | 12:06.44 louisekuchel Um  |  yes  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 12:21.78 Tania Waring And what I hope to be able to help families with down the track is giving them some guidance around process you know helping them sort of helping them reflect on Well what can they in their situation. What can they do differently that might get a different outcome.
 | 12:39.20 louisekuchel In.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 12:40.77 Tania Waring Um  |  because they're the expert on their family and hopefully I'll bring some expertise about reflection and you know thinking about I Ah wonder why that behavior is happening at that time being curious about what's happened and why it's happened so that.
 | 12:49.40 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 12:52.60 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 13:00.42 Tania Waring People can hopefully look for what can be done differently in a situation because it's not really about attributing blame. But it's about trying to understand what's going on for the child that that's what's happening and then yeah.
 | 13:06.94 louisekuchel No yeah  |  um  |  absolutely and that's why this podcast is here and yeah I know that's why twops started. It's about sharing our lived experiences.
 | 13:22.88 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 13:24.90 louisekuchel And also hearing from people who do know you know more about 1 subject more than somebody else and we can just pass it on that way. Yeah  |  it's a fantastic medium to share and do that and then at the same time support each other. So yeah  |  absolutely well I'm glad you see it that way as well.  |   | 
 | 13:30.89 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 13:39.46 Tania Waring Are.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 13:41.78 louisekuchel So let's move on a bit. Let's talk a bit more about your family and I wanted I was very interested to hear you've got 3 kids very close together and you know they're all sound quite different from each other as well.
 | 13:48.60 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  crazy. So yep.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 13:55.78 louisekuchel I Always like to talk about self-awareness and your authenticity and your identity as a neurodivergent person because what I have learned along the way is that that is a developing thing and you know a lot of people are at different stages with that I know my son is very.
 | 14:06.61 Tania Waring Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 14:14.89 louisekuchel You know  |  um  |  far far along the way but he could be further. So what did what would you say about your family in terms of their identity as neurodivergent people.
 | 14:25.40 Tania Waring I think we all talk about Neuro divergence really openly we everybody knows their diagnoses in our family and we talk about those things very openly in a it's we talk about it like we talk about Beds you might.
 | 14:37.82 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 14:43.26 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 14:44.62 Tania Waring And in fact with my third child because I wanted it to be really normal. It's it's just 1 part of who that's right  |  it's just 1 part of who they are and um  |  particular ah sort of it's not a negative thing. So I'm really want it to be seen as it's.
 | 14:49.17 louisekuchel Yep  |  well it is yep yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 15:04.19 Tania Waring It's not negative or positive. It's just that it's just different to this. It's not you know  |  better or worse I don't actually like I'm a bit like Russell barclay I don't really like the superpower idea because it's quite debilitating to be adhd and autistic and so.
 | 15:05.26 louisekuchel And e.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 15:13.88 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 15:23.62 Tania Waring That's a bit unfair I think because it sort of diminishes the difficulty that those diagnoses have for the child and it is incredibly difficult to live with Adhd and asd I mean it's a spectrum. Obviously so for some people it's not so difficult but certainly for my child.
 | 15:32.60 louisekuchel E. Yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 15:42.22 Tania Waring Very difficult and he is. It's wearing this really tumultuous time because he's going through puberty and changing from primary school to senior school next year which is a different school so there's a lot going on for him. And so that whole identity crisis that comes with this age is is happening for him but there are things that are ah delayed because of his adhd executive function things that are delayed which makes it harder for him to kind of. He's trying to make sense of the world and his place in it and. Um  |  why he behaves the way he does and we're trying to help him understand those things and support him trying to use the strategies which he knows really well but really struggles in the moment to access to.
 | 16:36.61 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 16:39.52 Tania Waring Control his emotions or to stop that Meltdown or divert himself or whatever. So it's look. It's I think that we're working towards this is just having a very positive identity with a diagnosis. Um I don't accept. That there's stigma with it I know that that exists in the world but not not in our family. It doesn't and um people who know us know about neurodiversity and if if you if.
 | 17:05.71 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 17:16.13 Tania Waring You know  |  Honestly  |  if you're uncomfortable with it. We're probably not going to be friends because it's such a big part of our life and and look there are people who aren't interested who don't want to know about it who find it uncomfortable and we just haven't ended up being friends with those people and that's okay because we're all different.
 | 17:17.94 louisekuchel Boom.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 17:33.68 louisekuchel Yep yep.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 17:35.80 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  so look I think I think we're working towards finding our positive identity I think it's a very tumultuous time and it's hard at the moment and hopefully when we get through these sort of these few years because I've got 2 other boys who are in puberty as well.
 | 17:41.32 louisekuchel A a.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 17:51.30 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  good luck with this? No um  |  that's good.  |   |   |   | 
 | 17:54.58 Tania Waring Um  |  but by comparison. Yeah more by they're very supportive of their little brother and they by comparison. We haven't seen this sort of mood swings that we're seeing with the youngest and so um  |  yeah  |  it's pretty extreme. But.  |   |   | 
 | 18:06.79 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 18:12.94 louisekuchel Yeah  |  and I was gonna sorry? Yeah yeah.  |   |   |   | 
 | 18:14.13 Tania Waring Where we're just it. Oh. We just got an eye on the Prize. We just want to get through to adulthood with our relationships intact I want all of us to feel connected I want all of us to feel good about who we are and that's the goal. And we try we every day we try to work towards that.
 | 18:33.78 louisekuchel Well that sounds like an absolute reasonable. Um  |  and logical response in the circumstances I know you're having a bit of a tough time at the moment so you you did really well to make.
 | 18:43.61 Tania Waring Yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 18:48.50 louisekuchel That positive because I know sometimes it's really hard to be positive when you're having a tough time and that's I've been there. Yeah I'm sure like yeah  |  well um  |  what's my excuse anyway moving on. Um.  |   | 
 | 18:50.47 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah I have my bad days loose I have my I have my reach for the wine days.
 | 19:04.83 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 19:08.25 louisekuchel Yeah  |  so so you did really well. Um  |  you know talking about where you're headed in a positive direction and I know that's hard So um  |  is that where where your challenges are what would you say are the main challenges in your family at the moment is it. Ah.
 | 19:12.90 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 19:24.73 louisekuchel Because of this transition time for your youngest son.  | 
 | 19:26.61 Tania Waring I think that's a big part of it. You know I think um  |  we emotional regulation has been an issue for our third boy since forever and there's. You know some I think yeah  |  it's really hard to know. Ah  |  we've got a really good team and I'm reminded when I see the members of our team that in lots of ways you know he's just going so much better and then we just have these critical. Ah  |  Meltdowns which are really problematic and you just think oh my god we go. We're going nowhere but when I look Back. It's maybe less meltdowns but more intense. So um.
 | 20:09.69 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 20:18.31 louisekuchel Um  |  something's really triggering something massive happening in his nervous system. There isn't it. Um.
 | 20:22.50 Tania Waring Yeah  |  it's really hard but I I do think? Yeah well he's really this year is a tough year and and in lots of ways I sort of can't wait to get to high school because I think. The anticipation of that change is just this level of stress for him. He also you know but I mentioned this in the 2 p hangout that his teacher also died by suicide this year so he's had that like he's just had.
 | 20:37.85 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 20:56.47 louisekuchel Oh my goodness. That's major yeah  |  that's trauma. Actually oh I'm so sorry to hear that.  |   |   | 
 | 20:56.97 Tania Waring A lot going on and yeah in terrible circumstances. Yeah  |  so yeah  |  and um  |  look it's been a really big year and it's really impacted him because you know what kids with I mean look.
 | 21:09.28 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 21:15.83 Tania Waring My experience has been that he is the most sensitive and vulnerable of my children. He is incredibly um  |  feels things very deeply and he'll think about things very deeply. You know it's he's.
 | 21:18.25 louisekuchel A is.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 21:26.71 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  inquisitive mind. Yeah  |  which can become an obsessive thing Bright Yep m.  | 
 | 21:34.50 Tania Waring Yeah  |  it Yeah  |  he really does oh because he's so he's very bright. Yeah  |  he's he's written a book blue So he's very bright and he has a bright future. It's just with trying to keep his self- eseem intact get him through to adulthood. So um.
 | 21:46.69 louisekuchel Um  |  yes  |  yes yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 21:53.60 Tania Waring Keep him connected with our family keep him secure in our family and hopefully he'll come through the other side and and he'll be a great author. He's you know he's loves writing he's got an editor. Can you believe it like seriously.
 | 21:59.55 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 22:06.80 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  well  |  that's wonderful because often it's finding that special interest that is quite hard to do. But if he's got something that really like floats his boat and that is his thing.
 | 22:12.54 Tania Waring It's yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 22:20.17 Tania Waring Yeah  |  yes  |  that's right strengths based approach and and look That's the that is the nail on the head is finding the child's interests and strengths that is absolutely a big part of.
 | 22:23.35 louisekuchel Absolutely embrace that that's his strength right? isn't it. So yeah  |  mm.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 22:39.91 Tania Waring Helping them get along in life with with intact self-esteem if you can find what they like doing and provide opportunities for them to do it and connect them in their community through that thing that they like doing then that is that is their future there because.
 | 22:42.92 louisekuchel E E E E e.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 22:57.29 Tania Waring That's what people do with their lives. They follow what they like doing the hardest time for kids with Adhd is off in school and then once we get through school they can choose to do what they like and they can choose to do things that float their boat but um  |  during school they've got no choice.  |   |   |   | 
 | 22:58.31 louisekuchel Who.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:07.23 louisekuchel E e.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:17.15 Tania Waring They've got to get through that curriculum and the importance hence the importance of keeping them engaged with school and not trying to very much to avoid that school refusal which is what happens so often for kids with Avhd but you know finding those interests.
 | 23:21.56 louisekuchel Um  |  yep.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:29.39 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:33.47 Tania Waring At the moment his interests which I also include Horse riding and sailing I know just like but he can't he Yeah Yes  |  yeah yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:38.17 louisekuchel Oh Wow Yeah  |  but that's a good thing too. Equine Therapy is and and ah like evidenced support for neurodivergent people and you have.
 | 23:53.33 Tania Waring That's right.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:54.64 louisekuchel Is an episode coming up on the podcast soon that talks a lot about horses and dogs and animal therapy. Yeah  |  very good. That's him. Yeah  |  right? Okay  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 23:58.64 Tania Waring Yeah  |  yeah  |  absolutely all of that is just wonderful. But at the moment he doesn't have capacity for any of that. So all of that's fallen away and he's yeah so he's not in he just can't get to anything at the moment.
 | 24:13.81 louisekuchel Right? Okay Ryan Yep yep.  |   |   |   | 
 | 24:15.64 Tania Waring Um  |  pick him up from school at 2 o'clock most days because once we get towards the end of term. He just doesn't have the capacity to get through the day through the rest of the term I pick him up every Friday at 2 and then maybe 1 other day. But once we get to the last 2 weeks of school. He's just done.
 | 24:28.68 louisekuchel Right? Yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  we've had that here with the home base learning I just had to stop it. You know and and then you know I was lucky the school counselor said well we're we're at the end of term. Anyway  |  he would be.  |   |   | 
 | 24:34.34 Tania Waring So I pick him Up. We aim for 2 every day. Yeah.  |   | 
 | 24:48.60 louisekuchel Starting to struggle you know and find he'd be exhausted anyway. So um  |  yeah  |  that's fine and I'm lucky I've got a supportive school but not everybody does which leads to my next question I was going to ask you about school because of course as we.
 | 24:50.20 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 24:55.31 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 25:04.96 louisekuchel Always talk about it is the place where we first and you mentioned it at the beginnings. The place where things start to emerge what sort of experience have you had with school.
 | 25:09.45 Tania Waring Yeah  |  absolutely. Ah  |  we have been incredibly lucky. So my first 2 boys had already started at the school and so the prep teacher had already seen our third child and had seen him having meltdowns at school which in a you know. He would have been like 3 when we first started going there I suppose. So um  |  in a two three year old a tantrum looks a meltdown sort of looks like a tantrum but becomes becomes more obvious that it's a meltdown as he grows I suppose. But so that she saw.
 | 25:44.26 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 25:52.94 Tania Waring That behavior and what she said to me when he started was and we we did cheese of kindy as well. So that like lots of kids with adhd they have that extra year at it's kindy up here I think it's preschool in new south wales kinder like. Ah  |  before school program so he had 2 years of that just to give him some more time not because he was academically behind but because you know you just had trouble not sitting still but well. Sitting still I suppose it's part of it. But um  |  yeah  |  so he did 2 years of kindy and then when we started she said um  |  we didn't have a diagnosis for him but I just thought he was a big personality and very very very very busy and adhd wasn't even on my radar. But.
 | 26:31.42 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 26:43.98 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 26:49.39 Tania Waring Um  |  we'd had a diagnosis for autism for my second son so that wasn't on my radar with our third child either. But the teacher in prep said to me look you know  |  just it'll be all right leaving with me and we'll see how the term how the year goes and she just kind of. Managed him pretty well. But she's a very skilled teacher so that year passed relatively uneventful other than lots of kind of funny moments where he was doing all sorts of things running around the classroom and whatnot. Um.
 | 27:11.38 louisekuchel M.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 27:22.33 louisekuchel But am I hearing from you that she was confident. It is yep I know who? yep.
 | 27:26.72 Tania Waring She felt confident and that makes that's massive so she it makes all the difference. Lou you don't need to have lots of special qualifications. You just need to be confident because your confidence is saying to the child I've got this mate I'm the adult and I've seen everything. So. It's okay  |  you will be fine I'm not worried I'm not frightened of you. You will be fine. You're upset and you're unhappy I can see that but you will be fine I'm here you'll be fine. Massive.
 | 27:46.31 louisekuchel Co-regulation. Yeah yeah  |  yep  |  no  |  it's a massive factor isn't it. Yeah I think it's so important. Yeah.
 | 28:01.40 Tania Waring Massive because if you've got a teacher who is spooked by a child because they've thrown a chair around or or something like that then that can really becomes a problem in that relationship because you know what the child's thinking the child is not thinking.
 | 28:02.78 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 28:18.52 Tania Waring Um  |  I've got it all over this teacher I'm just going to do what I want the child is thinking Oh my God How bad must I be if the teacher is scared of me. Wow I Just want to cry for that child because that child is thinking.
 | 28:19.40 louisekuchel No way. Yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 28:26.43 louisekuchel Ah  |  yeah I had this exact experience I Absolutely know what you're talking about? Yeah yeah  |  yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 28:36.23 Tania Waring Holy Cow I must be awful if the teacher doesn't yeah and you know what? if you don't like the child they know so they also pick up on that and then the child's thinking. Wow The teacher doesn't loves everybody else in here but doesn't love me.
 | 28:40.17 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 28:43.68 louisekuchel Is. Um  |  and you go on then it's finished. Yeah yeah.  |   |   | 
 | 28:54.39 Tania Waring So it's it's really so the the teacher in prep was really confident and we got through prep fine and then we got into grade 1 and we had a very ah brand new teacher who. Didn't say anything to me until she was sprinting across the yard in term 3 saying oh because well we actually started him so we took him away for a month we had um  |  long service leaves so we went away for a month as a family. And look it had been tough. He'd been okay at school she hadn't really sort of given us any encouragement to go see someone towards the end of this year she must have said something because I had the name of a pediatrician and when we went away for this month we came back. White knuckled it was just the most. It was a great trip but it really it was like Covid for everybody on the planet. It really brought home to us how problematic his behavior was so we came back from that trip and we had booked in to see the pediatrician.
 | 29:45.47 louisekuchel I am yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 29:53.73 louisekuchel Um  |  in.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 30:02.82 louisekuchel The.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 30:03.47 Tania Waring The next day again. Pre-covid when that that was possible at the moment that's not possible. But you know we just had that intense time away together and we just could see how much he was struggling with just so many different things could not wait. Could not wait for anything. There was times when there was 1 time in.
 | 30:12.63 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 30:22.55 Tania Waring China of all places where we were on 1 side of customs and in the line that's snaking around next thing we see our blonde hair blue-eyed child on the other side of customs just looking at us like come on and hurry up and we decide. But.
 | 30:31.42 louisekuchel Well no.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 30:37.82 louisekuchel Who oh my gosh not in China yet are out no scary enough. Oh yeah I think travel travel really triggers off a lot of that.
 | 30:42.63 Tania Waring I Know Yeah  |  exactly could not speak the language. Oh my God Yeah look it was so lots of moments like that where yeah  |  yes  |  yeah  |  and yeah  |  yeah  |  the worst.  | 
 | 30:54.94 louisekuchel Um  |  because we lived in the uk for 5 years Believe me I know this airports were like the worst place on earth but also when you're learning yourself and you don't know any better yourself. You're thinking why is every other family around here look like they're all calm and why is this happening to us. You're in a spiral of negativity.
 | 31:01.38 Tania Waring Yeah  |  yeah  |  that's right? Yeah yes  |  yes  |  absolutely we were in crisis. Yes.  | 
 | 31:14.69 louisekuchel Yeah  |  so I hope people are listening to this thinking if that's happening to you. It's okay  |  it's happened to so many other people before you now you need to look at strategies to manage that in the future Perhaps overseas travel is not.
 | 31:20.28 Tania Waring Yes  |  yeah in yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 31:30.84 louisekuchel On your radar for a few years and you need to look at other things and think about that. But yes  |  we've all lived through that I know yeah  |  um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 31:33.59 Tania Waring Oh for sure and it is ah it takes that spiral because it's not something like you I think everyone has a crisis before a diagnosis we we were just it was ah I mean we I travel very differently now. So you know now.
 | 31:44.24 louisekuchel E the.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 31:52.71 Tania Waring I'm careful to make sure that we stay generally we stay if we're going to go away. 2 weeks is as much time as he can get away. We can't do more than 2 weeks and then if we're away for 2 weeks I might try and only change accommodation twice. So I'm not going to go undo a heap of different places.
 | 32:08.65 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 32:11.88 Tania Waring And we have rest days even in that 2 wo-week period we'll have rest days where I asked nothing of him. He just gets to do sit in front of the tv for the whole day if he wants we always choose accommodation that has a garden with a rock bed or access to a rocky area because that's how he self-regulates.
 | 32:15.35 louisekuchel Yep yep Yep yep.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 32:31.40 Tania Waring He likes to rock up and so I choose I'm I'm the 1 on the phone to the b and b airby does your garden. You know it? Yeah about the garden you crazy woman and so and you know it needs to be somewhere where it's not observed because he doesn't like being.
 | 32:39.40 louisekuchel And they're like why do you want to know that? oh.  | 
 | 32:48.31 louisekuchel Um  |  yes  |  yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 32:50.91 Tania Waring Deserve you know and also I choose Active holidays in the sense that we which suits us because so we have hiking holidays where we hike in the morning or we go we ride in the morning and then we have the afternoon off. So it's sort of a predictable-ish routine.
 | 32:56.80 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 33:04.61 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 33:10.17 Tania Waring It's active. We're not he can't do cities. He can't do museums. He can't do like there's just there are just things that and that might change over time of course because we all we all change. Yeah  |  that's right  |  That's right? yep.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 33:19.52 louisekuchel Yeah  |  of course  |  but that's boring to him and and not predictable and if he's not got the interest and it's not what he expected. Forget it.
 | 33:28.83 Tania Waring That's it if that's right if we but but you know that Abey Um  |  the the Abbey museum here which is like a old world museum with with armor and like I can't like it's.
 | 33:43.99 louisekuchel War related things or yet something is interested in. Yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yes.  |   |   |   | 
 | 33:48.10 Tania Waring Definitely war. That's right if it's something like that then I could take him to that for an hour now. My other kids could stay in that for the whole day. They'd find that interesting and my husband would too but an hour's good for him now and that that brings me to the next thing we always take 2 cars or we have a meet or I'll get an uber home with him.
 | 34:02.62 louisekuchel Yeah  |  um  |  um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 34:07.65 Tania Waring So we go with a plan that as soon when he's had enough I don't ask more from him if he tells me I need to go home I don't say to him ever? Oh Ma just another half hour I say thanks for letting me know mate you've done a really good job of recognizing that now let's go and so we're.
 | 34:15.00 louisekuchel Yeah yep  |  yep.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 34:27.11 Tania Waring Already made that plan I'm not disappointed that we're leaving early. The others will stay or vice versa. But we have that plan So that's that's an accommodation that we've made for him so he's happier to come and in a better head space when he comes because he knows when he's had enough. He can leave.
 | 34:36.10 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 34:39.61 louisekuchel E m.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 34:46.67 Tania Waring And that makes a big difference for him.  |   | 
 | 34:46.92 louisekuchel Um I remember Svor Lam talking about that on that episode I'm pretty sure it was her and we've definitely done that as well. It's a really good strategy to help them to know what's coming and when they're uncomfortable. They can trust us to say right? Okay  |  you want to go. We're going.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 34:53.58 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 35:02.81 Tania Waring That's right? Yeah yep  |  Yes  |  yeah  |  that's right? but hopefully by talking about it it these these are things that might occur to other people more quickly. So um and I've let go.
 | 35:05.48 louisekuchel And we tell our friends upfront and yet but it took his years to work this all out.
 | 35:14.19 louisekuchel M.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 35:19.54 Tania Waring They're not teachable moments like when we're somewhere. That's he's not comfortable somewhere where he's already trying really hard um to to do what everyone else is doing. They're not teachable opportunities. So I don't ask more of him there. He's already stretched yet. That's right.
 | 35:31.17 louisekuchel No  |  he's already. He's already achieved. Yeah yeah.  |   |   | 
 | 35:38.16 Tania Waring Um  |  teachable moments might come when you know in different situations but not public at home has to be at home kind of when we can reflect and he's in a good headspace to reflect you know  |  but when he's out and we're trying to get get him to join in on something that's not really his bag.
 | 35:50.00 louisekuchel E e.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 35:58.27 Tania Waring That's not an opportunity for us to teach him anything or stretch him. He's already stretched enough by getting there.
 | 35:59.32 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  So we've talked about having confident teachers and and being predictable and and you know how? um those strategies can support and And. Ah  |  not lower the expectations but manage the expectations to meet what the child is able to achieve what other things were happening at school before we get on to talking about this wonderful Mrs K is there anything else that that you could say about school that you want to share.
 | 36:26.83 Tania Waring Yeah  |  oh definitely So when we when we came back from that trip and the grade 1 teacher who was very young and new to teaching. Um  |  Communication's really important and I think that is. 1 thing that overall the school has done exceptionally well having that communication. So if I'm have if he's had a bad morning at home I can send a text or a um  |  an email and give them the heads Up. He's going to need a bit of extra.
 | 36:48.96 louisekuchel Great.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 37:05.88 Tania Waring Tender loving care when he walks in the classroom now he wants to reset when he gets to school because he wants to get through. He wants to have a good day at school. So he's not he's trying really hard not to take that problem to school so he needs the teacher to help him shift mentally from the problem at home into a. Into a happy environment at school. So if the teacher can just say to him. It doesn't even need to be verbal thumbs up thumb sideways thumbs down and then Matt can then without say anything just let them quietly know where he's at and also if the teacher's aware that he's had a bad morning.
 | 37:38.14 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 37:41.10 Tania Waring Just give him a bit of extra space. So if if they're doing something and he's into it give him another few minutes when you say pack up and if he doesn't pack up immediately just give him another few minutes. He'll he'll pack up. You know he just needs that bit of extra time. So just to have that's right.
 | 37:52.86 louisekuchel So so they are adjusting the environment to suit him rather than expecting him to suit what their expectations are how fantastic.
 | 38:01.10 Tania Waring That's right? Yeah yeah  |  well it's that's a learning that's a learned skill though. So and every year you've got to start that again  |  but it is but hopefully it's something that because not  |  we're learning too. So hopefully those.  |   | 
 | 38:07.42 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yes  |  you do? Yeah um yeah.  |   |   | 
 | 38:18.32 Tania Waring Um  |  Teachers have been around a long time and have um  |  look kindness is ah if you're a kind person. You're naturally going to do those things anyway  |  but given them hopefully people who've had us in their class will have. Learned from the experiences that what I talk about when I when we have our teacher meetings and whatnot and when things go badly. They want to know what can we do to prevent that from happening again and that's what I would talk about I would talk about to basically his capacity is what it is. Through the course of the day Now. You can expect more from him. But if he doesn't have the capacity to reach that he is going to fail so you can either lower your expectation of him or you can scaffold his capacity to meet that expectation and in that example  |  you know if he's if he's really into something.
 | 39:02.25 louisekuchel And.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 39:15.37 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 39:15.39 Tania Waring And you've said to the class you know  |  pack up. It's time to move on to the next thing and he's still going on at that something just have enough flexibility to sort of let him linger on that for a minute or 2 Um and then.
 | 39:23.55 louisekuchel Both.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 39:31.41 Tania Waring Because he will move on. He's not going to stay doing that while everyone else is doing something else. He will move on but just having that kind of flexibility to just give him that bit of extra space and equally if he if you can see that he his clue cues that he's not doing well clenched fists.
 | 39:33.12 louisekuchel Um  |  I'm pushing. Yeah yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 39:50.49 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 39:50.90 Tania Waring You'll see it in his face is no poker face and you know if you can see that body language then hey Matt touch his shoulder how you doing did why don't you take this up to the office in you know  |  give him a ah book if.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 40:03.71 louisekuchel Something else to do? Yeah  |  yeah yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   | 
 | 40:07.65 Tania Waring Send him out send him out of the office doesn't matter send him what it is just send him out of to the office to do some errand to give him that opportunity to calm himself.
 | 40:17.50 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 40:19.48 Tania Waring Like away from observation in the classroom and just things like that can make a difference to him through the course of the day.
 | 40:22.40 louisekuchel Um  |  ah these are all things that we know these are all strategies that we know work so well and of course you can't it's not 1 size fits all every child's different and I understand the challenge in that for the teachers. You've obviously done an amazing job advocating.
 | 40:32.24 Tania Waring Um  |  no  |  that's right.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 40:40.46 Tania Waring Can I come to the third thing because it's more that there's there's it's you need like the the third communications really important so me with them and then with me if he's had a bad date school I don't need to know everything that's gone wrong.
 | 40:41.12 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah I And you you said? oh yes  |  all right? You didn't realize.  |   |   |   | 
 | 40:54.25 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 40:59.60 Tania Waring But if it's important then let me know the leadership is so important. So if leadership of the school believe in your child then that leads a culture through the school and it's also.
 | 41:12.49 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 41:18.38 Tania Waring Like my child the safe people that he names on the on his five fingers. You know how it's mom dad. You know the principal and the deputy are 2 of his five people because he knows at school if something doesn't go well  |  he just goes straight to the office and.  |   |   |   | 
 | 41:24.40 louisekuchel Yes e.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 41:29.67 louisekuchel Wow.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 41:38.14 Tania Waring He will go and see the deputy the other good thing about school leadership is if he's having a meltdown or if he abruptly leaves the classroom to avoid having a meltdown in the classroom then they just read the office. The teacher can't leave everybody but the leadership someone from the leadership team. Can keep eyes on him. He doesn't need a whole bunch of people surrounding him because that just will make him worse. But that's our part of our behavior plan that if if that happens they just ring the office and someone from the leadership will Math. He has an agreed space in our school where he will go. That's part of his behavior plan and they will just have 1 person with him don't need to be near him just need to so he knows so someone's got eyes on him when he's ready he will come and approach them and they will help him then transition.
 | 42:17.34 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 42:31.21 Tania Waring Back into the classroom or home if he's had enough and he needs to come home. But um  |  what also happens is that when you're really heightened and you're ready to have a meltdown or you've had a meltdown when you start coming back down Again. It's really awkward to transition back into a busy classroom. It's gone on without you so he needs help to come out of that headspace and back into the headspace of the day and get on with the day in a productive way. Yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  So they're really good at those things. Yeah I think they're ex like.
 | 42:57.49 louisekuchel The transition of it. Yeah yeah  |  well yeah  |  your school's sounding better by the minute. Yeah  |  they've really got their act together haven't they yeah.
 | 43:09.33 Tania Waring Yeah  |  they've been they've been terrific they've listened to us as a family we've had out. We had 1 really bad year with a teacher who was you know pretty lazy but um  |  but overwhelmingly and he a tell you what Lou he loves school. He loves school.
 | 43:16.11 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 43:27.15 louisekuchel Oh good boy. Yeah.  |   |   |   | 
 | 43:29.90 Tania Waring He's got friends at school. He's got you know the the kids he really loves the most are actually kids with disabilities. He feels like a real advocate for them. Um  |  and he they're you know he he's just very happy there but that.  | 
 | 43:40.41 louisekuchel M.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 43:47.81 Tania Waring That's because he's got great leadership at the school. We've had a series of great lead of great teachers. Um  |  and great communication and like I've heard you say this actually but it's so true. The parent has to do their bit So I try really hard.
 | 43:50.43 louisekuchel Um  |  yep  |  yep and communication.  |   |   |   | 
 | 44:05.93 Tania Waring To understand my child's disability understand all the things that we can do to help him and I try and do all of those things and I try to be respectful to the school as well as being an advocate and persisting but I try and respect the fact that they've also got resource issues time issues.
 | 44:12.98 louisekuchel In.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 44:19.11 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 44:25.70 Tania Waring Um I try and assume they're doing their best as well. Um  |  but you know so it's all of those things isn't it. Yeah.  |   | 
 | 44:28.14 louisekuchel Um  |  I think they're the key factors. Yeah  |  look you make them sound easy too and they're not. It's not easy to get that balance right? I know it's hard but it is so important you can't just throw your kid into school and let them.
 | 44:38.22 Tania Waring No. Yes  |  yeah. Um  |  Ah  |  yeah  |  ah and I see his he I see him really? um  |  he knows that I'm known at the school by the leadership I mean like so.
 | 44:47.18 louisekuchel You know  |  expect them to just do all the hard work. It's just not. It does not work that way. Yeah  |  okay so oh yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 45:00.31 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yes  |  that's great role modeling. Yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  so yeah  |  yeah.  | 
 | 45:03.16 Tania Waring He feels supported by me in the school too. So You know he knows that I will be there with him to try and work it out. Yeah  |  so it's not I'm not negative about the school I don't run the school down. Um  |  but we I just we will work out if there's an issue we will work it out. And he knows that I'll stand beside him to try and work that out.
 | 45:25.11 louisekuchel Well  |  that's wonderful. That's what everyone should be striving for. And yeah  |  it's not easy  |  but when it does work. Well  |  it's such a relief and I'm sure you'll get through this sort of time for for us when we moved to high school. It was the best thing that ever happened. But.
 | 45:32.91 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 45:41.18 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 45:43.69 louisekuchel You sound like you've got a ah great group of um educators there with him and so now can you tell me I'll write you the other way around to what we were Well we were frightened poo but um  |  but it was unfounded and it was due to confidence. It was.  |   | 
 | 45:46.20 Tania Waring Ah  |  Lou I'm I'm frightened of leaving I want to I cry now I talk about it. Yeah.  | 
 | 46:01.50 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  oh I hope so yeah look I hope So yeah  |  the new school. Yeah  |  that's right? Yeah I'm an unknown entity I.
 | 46:02.11 louisekuchel Yeah  |  we were lucky in that way and I'm sure you will be as well. Um  |  anyway  |  good luck. What else can I say I can't do anymore. You just keep doing what you're doing because you sound like you're doing a fantastic job. Yeah  | . So do you remember? Ah yes. Yes  |  it is an unknown entity. It is yeah of course you do you do and it is stressful I remember it so well I'm sure it's going to be okay though you got your act together. So yeah  |  you do know what you're doing So um  |  okay  |  so do you remember I don't.
 | 46:20.68 Tania Waring School. Do you know what? I mean like I'm going to start again and yeah  |  anyway  |  doesn't we'll we'll get there.  |   |   |   | 
 | 46:30.40 Tania Waring Like size. Yeah hive saying.  |   |   |   | 
 | 46:39.87 louisekuchel And even know if it was last year or the year before p aaa did a I don't know why we did it. It was during adhd awareness month and we did a teacher competition and we asked people to parents to write in or something like that and I was donating succulents because I love my succulents and.
 | 46:52.41 Tania Waring That's right  |  That's right.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 46:59.55 louisekuchel We we donated something and we sent a card off to this amazing teacher at your school and I just think we can't finish our conversation today without talking about this person. We're calling her mrs k it's not me someone else. Um  |  and mrs kindness.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 47:11.84 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 47:15.89 louisekuchel Because she sounds like she is just so kind and the epitome of what we want a good teacher to be oh okay  |  well if that's all right? Mrs Creach Okay  |  with the purple hair.  |   |   |   | 
 | 47:17.10 Tania Waring Ah I don't think she she wouldn't mind me naming her. Yeah mrs creish she's off she is 1 She's the best teacher with the purple hair. She's the best teacher in a conservative catholic school I might add.
 | 47:32.95 louisekuchel Yeah  |  oh well.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 47:36.44 Tania Waring But she's the teacher who um oh she's neurodiergent too I'm sure of it I ah don't know for sure Mrs gre but um  |  she is highly energetic. She's 70 years old um this year and  |   | 
 | 47:40.94 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  great. Yeah. Oh wow.  |   |   |   | 
 | 47:52.84 Tania Waring She is 1 of the most incredible teachers kind ah empathetic when kids come into her room. She expects each child to do their best. So I saw um a child take something up to her. And to me it looked pretty Good. You know  |  given the writing that the style of writing that I get to tend to see at home I said I thought oh um  |  that's pretty good and she said and she got sort of a bit cross on this um little kid and said you know you can do much better than that I want you to go back and have another go and then the next kid brought up. Their work and it was shocking and she was like Gee. You've done really? Well there good on you and like just I thought you know what she she knows if kids are doing their best or not and she's not unkind but she wants them to strive and so in their classroom.
 | 48:37.78 louisekuchel Right.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 48:52.11 Tania Waring And our child had 2 of my boys had her the 2 neurodivergent kids and she was incredible with them. They both would have walked on hot coals for her. She looked out for them. She encouraged them. She gave them confidence because you know they learned.
 | 49:07.81 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 49:09.60 Tania Waring To do things through that year I think that I ah can't remember what they were exactly but when they started the year they couldn't do them by the end of the year they could do them and it was just simply because you know you can do that give another go and.
 | 49:22.88 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 49:23.71 Tania Waring Just kept them going until they learned these skills and like you're learning so many skills in primary school. It's just such a huge learning curve in primary school on so many levels but she really did get the best out of kids and she's.
 | 49:36.66 louisekuchel M.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 49:39.13 Tania Waring Such a curious woman. She's done lots of training in Adhd and special needs and autism and love Sue Laki you know  |  just really has done lots. He's curious about it works really hard to understand these things.
 | 49:49.57 louisekuchel He.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 49:55.36 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 49:55.69 Tania Waring But also she's curious about the child. So she's I can see that in her. You know she's thinking I Wonder why that's going on and trying to work out what's happening with that kid. That's that that's what we're seeing if it's unexpected in some way so you know.
 | 50:03.45 louisekuchel Right? yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 50:11.55 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 50:13.50 Tania Waring And she was terrific with parents incredibly confident. You know if she she was very happy to so we had her in Grade 3 and she was you know straight up here's my phone number if there's a problem call me and she would let me know if something. Happened that I needed to be aware of but I didn't I don't need to know everything so I don't ah don't want to know every small thing that goes wrong in the day. Um  |  but if it's a big thing then in the same way I would let them know if you'd had a massive meltdown and something had happened. They would let me know so that we.
 | 50:39.82 louisekuchel Who.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 50:51.81 Tania Waring Sort of keep working on things together and she you know it was just a really good relationship and I guess that was I thought right? Well if I've had this really great relationship with you. That's what I want each year with the teacher I want want to have this kind of mutual respect that. Um  |  not going to burden you with things you don't need to know or hear or take up your time but you know if yeah  |  it was really it was just it was respectful and it was great when they went on camp she said no I don't think you need to come I think it'll be good and it was good.
 | 51:12.13 louisekuchel Who.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 51:19.23 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 51:26.25 Tania Waring But this year for instance  |  they've got their camp again hopefully but we've had so many things happen this year which have been tumultuous for our child. The schools actually said oh look you know what? maybe you should come and I'll just stay. Separately not have anything to do with what they're doing. But if things go badly then at least a that. Yeah that's right I'm there so he can come and stay with me if he needs to that's right? That's right? So yeah  |  yeah  |  and.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 51:51.65 louisekuchel You're there? Yep yep  |  So the trying to make sure he's included. Yes  |  yeah I did that? Yep yeah I did that on that big camp trip that they do yeah and it was great. Great idea.
 | 52:03.49 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  that's it. Yeah so I probably would have gone to canberra to if that was going to happen. But it's not going to happen of course because of our premer but it'll be going to an island so I'll go and stay and just um.
 | 52:09.44 louisekuchel Yeah. Um  |  I yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 52:19.85 Tania Waring Yeah I don't need to see him or have anything to do with what they're doing. It's just a safety net so that you know if things go badly if he needs to get away and just kind of recoup himself then you know he can come to where I'm staying and.
 | 52:24.38 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 52:30.26 louisekuchel The.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 52:36.80 louisekuchel But a lot of schools would just say no  |  you're not coming you know so so you like you you do definitely have 1 of these standout schools. Yeah I think you do which is absolutely wonderful. But.
 | 52:36.51 Tania Waring Yeah  |  so and the principles going? Yeah yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  and you know the principles going on. Oh it absolutely is the Principal's going to go on this trip because.
 | 52:54.29 louisekuchel M.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 52:55.50 Tania Waring My son's on it so he just wants to make sure that he has the best trip possible and he knows that if they're there then that's another safety net for him that doesn't involve calling in a parent you know so they really are they've been just terrific and um and.
 | 53:04.92 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yep  |  yep.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 53:13.10 Tania Waring You know and it's flexible because he had a great time on camp when I didn't go but that was only an hour and a half away and I could have driven up if needed. But also he was in a different place. He was very secure he was in the middle of his primary. You know this is. It's been a really tricky year this year so
 | 53:22.74 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 53:32.80 Tania Waring Yeah I think that flexibility is really important too and um and look. We're very lucky that um not every family has the resources that we do that you know I can go over there and stay and just do my own thing for 3 days. Ah I'm not working so.
 | 53:50.30 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  no  |  that's that's very true. Yeah  |  there has to be other methods used So I'm hearing confidence communication. Great leadership teachers who are looking at.
 | 53:50.74 Tania Waring Not every family has that capacity as well. Um  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 54:07.20 louisekuchel Children as individuals different types of shaped pegs. Everyone's got different triggers. They're looking. They're being flexible. That's what I've heard from you through this whole chat. Um is it which is absolutely wonderful I didn't expect you to do this actually.
 | 54:07.42 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  sure. Um  |  yeah and I don't think it. It doesn't.  |   | 
 | 54:25.82 louisekuchel I Thought there. Yeah there was going to be I thought that there was going to be a lot more of um I don't know of the similar stories we hear from other people which is all about punity and um suspensions and being kicked out of the classroom and then.
 | 54:39.58 Tania Waring Yeah  |  we've been suspended. Yeah  |  we've had that. Oh yeah  |  yeah  |  and and look and but I tell you what Lou you learn you live and learn that happened earlier on with with that lazy teacher and.
 | 54:45.21 louisekuchel Oh you have? Yeah okay  |  no yeah. Yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 54:58.76 Tania Waring Um  |  there have been events that could have led to suspension since then so he's had a couple of suspensions but I wouldn't agree with that. At this point I just think that's not acceptable in in most cases I think where he's had a problem. It's in a meltdown.
 | 55:16.35 louisekuchel E.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 55:16.84 Tania Waring And he is not in charge of his reasoning in that moment. His disability is actually that he can't control his emotions and he has poor impulse controls. So if he's throwing a chair across the room that's because of his disability and you know what we as the adults need to look at is well.
 | 55:25.46 louisekuchel Yep.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 55:33.86 Tania Waring How can we avoid that from happening again. What's happened that's led to that and I can tell you there's always a series of things that has happened to lead to that So we can always change something about his environment to minimize that from happening again. But you can't punish him because his disability has.
 | 55:35.43 louisekuchel Then.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 55:53.91 Tania Waring Reared its ugly head and that's what it is like when those awful moments That's the the disability. It's not him. He is just he hates it. He gets so it's humiliating. It's it's degrading. He doesn't want to be that person.
 | 55:55.44 louisekuchel E E. No  |  That's right? yeah. Yes  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 56:12.64 Tania Waring Makes him feel like he's a monster. You know he does not want to be that so it's not what he wants it's and it's not a lack of motivation to make better choices. It's just simply that he's overwhelmed and totally lost control and so once he's lost control.
 | 56:16.56 louisekuchel Is in.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 56:26.70 louisekuchel E a.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 56:31.53 Tania Waring Anything that happens in that moment is yeah  |  you can't punish him for that. We've got to stop doing that.  |   | 
 | 56:35.54 louisekuchel No  |  oh absolutely not and they're not. They're not meant to be punishments. But we know they they are sometimes ah a lot of the time. But yeah  |  okay  |  yeah  |  of course they are but in your case where you have had these however  |  many suspensions for him.  | 
 | 56:41.17 Tania Waring Oh they totally are profound. Yeah.  |   |   | 
 | 56:54.62 louisekuchel Did they learn something and change because that's what it's meant to be about it's meant to give everyone a break and allow the school to change the environment and manage whatever caused that behaviour in the first place better in the future which you just said.
 | 57:11.10 Tania Waring I Think that as we go along. We all learn and we all learn to reflect and think about what we could do differently so but do I think that he needed to be removed from the school or the classroom if it's an in-school suspension for a period of time for that to happen. Absolutely not.
 | 57:11.28 louisekuchel So did they do that.  |   |   |   | 
 | 57:30.79 Tania Waring That learning happens by a conversation that takes ten minutes twenty minutes. Whatever like that learning is quick. You don't need a day or 2 days or 3 days to learn that you need to have a conversation. Yeah  |  exactly sorry but you don't need that length of time that learning comes from a.
 | 57:34.96 louisekuchel Right? Yep or 20 days like we have here? Yeah yeah  |  that right.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 57:49.28 Tania Waring Ah  |  a reflective conversation and unfortunately you know this year we've had a young-ish teacher but a bit nervous and she's new to the school which I think is a bit tricky because she's trying to impress.
 | 58:00.95 louisekuchel The. Me me.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 58:06.56 Tania Waring You You know she wants to impress her new employer and do a good job. Um  |  but it's you know if you don't feel confident then that sends ah an implicit message to the child.
 | 58:22.70 louisekuchel Um.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 58:24.10 Tania Waring You're not confident and I think then the child starts to think oh my God If you're if you're not in charge who is you know and so it's it just destabilizes. Yeah  |  yeah  |  they do they do and you know I mean we like? yeah.  | 
 | 58:31.40 louisekuchel Yes  |  yeah  |  and then they they lose they become scared. Yeah yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  yeah  |  it's a fear fight or flight response.
 | 58:43.25 Tania Waring Absolutely absolutely that fight or flight response. It's just simmering below the surface at all times. So yeah  |  it's um  |  and look. We're lucky that he's got good that the leadership do support that teacher. Um  |  and you know our son's pretty good at um.  | 
 | 58:48.82 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah  |  oh.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 58:57.90 louisekuchel Good.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 59:02.67 Tania Waring Ah  |  removing himself if he has to which is good because that's a better strategy than throwing furniture. So um  |  that's yeah  |  so that's yeah  |  yeah  |  he's a bit of an he can abscond.
 | 59:04.58 louisekuchel Yeah  |  absolutely and he will learn more yeah over the years oh very good. Yeah yeah.
 | 59:18.40 Tania Waring Ah  |  did you ever You had an abscondo. Yeah yeah  |  that's it. That's it. Yeah yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 59:19.87 louisekuchel Well and there's ah everyone seems to respond a different way either. Well fight flight fan. Whatever the other ones are yes so you know the flight bit does happen. Yeah  |  of course. Yeah  |  well  |  it's understandable. Have you read Mona della hook's Beyond behaviors.
 | 59:35.60 Tania Waring Ah  |  no I haven't I'll have to take that down though because I I do read and read and read about send it.
 | 59:38.93 louisekuchel Oh yeah  |  oh don't worry. Um I've got her coming up by the time by the time this podcast is out this episode. Um  |  she will have been on. She's coming on. Um  |  and anyway she talks about all this stuff and it's all about the the Polyvagal theory and.
 | 59:44.51 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah  |  oh good.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 59:55.81 Tania Waring Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 59:58.74 louisekuchel Nervous system being challenged and our understanding of what lies behind the behaviors. But yeah  |  well is there anything else that you would like to talk about in regards to your experiences with these people.
 | 01:00:03.55 Tania Waring If.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:00:14.67 Tania Waring Look I think um  |  what a blessing to him that he was born in this era because even like certainly when I was a child at school and probably until not very long ago really kids with adhd and autism.
 | 01:00:16.58 louisekuchel In your life.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:00:23.62 louisekuchel And.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:00:34.36 Tania Waring Were just sidelined like the trajectory from school to Jail pretty high if you've um  |  unmanaged Adhd and you know if you if you can't pay attention for long enough to learn things in school.
 | 01:00:44.20 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:00:52.16 Tania Waring Then you start getting and you're distractible and distracting and distracted then you're going to end up with a bunch of kids who are similar and they're not engaged in the learning and you're just going to end up in trouble and then you end up in trouble enough and what happens is people start sort of thinking less of you and they start thinking you're.
 | 01:01:02.75 louisekuchel You know.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:01:11.30 Tania Waring Bit of an asshole Really now if you tell someone they're an asshole for long enough. Guess what they grow up to be they grow up to be an asshole and with this kind of constant negative attention and constant negative messaging to children for things that they can't control.
 | 01:01:15.45 louisekuchel Um  |  yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:01:28.29 Tania Waring It just builds this resentment poor self-image and then they end up you know  |  falling out of school. They hate school. They won't go to school. They end up you know  |  running away they end up. Yeah  |  they're getting negative messages everywhere. It's It's ah you know we're just so lucky that.
 | 01:01:44.67 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:01:48.90 Tania Waring We're storming down that path of you will accept these kids for who they are and we will make a difference for these kids and we will support them in their learning we will make changes because it's not good enough Anymore. We're not going to you know. Let these kids just fall by the wayside we're going to give them the support they need and we're going to like I scream it from the rooftops I want everybody to understand Adhd better than they do I want everybody to understand kids with Adhd are doing their best So assume that and if it's not what you expected.
 | 01:02:04.80 louisekuchel Yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:02:10.40 louisekuchel Um  |  and yeah. The app.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:02:22.30 Tania Waring Then have a think about Well what's going on that. That's what happened because it's not that the child is an asshole that something's happened. They've been overwhelmed. There might be a series of events but be curious about what's going on with that child because.
 | 01:02:29.64 louisekuchel And.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:02:38.80 Tania Waring You know what we're going to make a difference for these kids and they're going to grow up and be something wonderful. Matthew's my son's gonna be ah  |  an amazing author. Yeah yeah  |  he is. He's gonna yeah  |  he's written a book. He's he really will yeah.  | 
 | 01:02:42.43 louisekuchel And the evidence is showing it. Yeah yes  |  he is I can't wait to hear about that and if you he really will I have no doubt about that. Yeah.
 | 01:02:57.71 Tania Waring So um and that's the other thing too focus on their positive stories because we spend and I know I'm guilty of this because I'm so worried about it and and I think about it and talk about all the time but there's more to his story than adhd in Autism. There's all these other wonderful stories and.
 | 01:02:58.56 louisekuchel That's then that's so Awesome. Who.  |   | 
 | 01:03:12.34 louisekuchel Yes.  |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:03:16.15 Tania Waring Ah  |  try and breathe more life into them I'm really trying to be intentional about talking about his positive stories because there's lots of them. You know he is a great author he he does things to do with being an author that most adults wouldn't do like he goes to writing classes and he does.
 | 01:03:24.72 louisekuchel Yeah  |  yeah.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:03:35.80 Tania Waring You know he sits down and writes and writes and writes and I yeah he is yeah he really is and um  |  that's just 1 of his positive stories. He's got lots of positive stories. So yeah  |  um  |  just that's what I'm trying to be intentional about.  | 
 | 01:03:36.76 louisekuchel He sounds amazing. Yeah yeah  |  um.  |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:03:48.40 louisekuchel And I love hearing you talk about that? Yeah  |  absolutely and I think the more he learns how to and his nervous system develops and he learns how to regulate more into the future and he will. He will.
 | 01:03:53.45 Tania Waring Yeah.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:04:02.48 Tania Waring Yep yep.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:04:05.36 louisekuchel With you all supporting him and this fantastic school and educators and everyone wrapping their arms around him he will he will improve and then you'll be able to see you will and and you'll see you'll see all this stuff because this is what's happened to us with our son ah a person emerges.
 | 01:04:11.00 Tania Waring Yeah I hope so.  |   |   |   | 
 | 01:04:23.42 Tania Waring Um  |  um  |  yeah  |  oh thank you? Lou! Oh thank you? That's so kind I'm praying to God that it happens sooner than later of course.
 | 01:04:25.20 louisekuchel And you see who they are.. It's awesome. It's in your future. It's going to happen neat will it will it happened to me it will happen to you 2 Ah  |  ah  |  that's all right? yeah. It will it honestly will I know you don't feel it then. Ah I've been there but you will it will get better. Well I reckon that we've had a really good chat. Yeah fingers Crossed. We've had a really good chat and we're probably time to sign off now and.
 | 01:04:47.12 Tania Waring Um  |  Fingers crossed. Thank you.  |   |   |   |   | 
 | 01:04:57.73 louisekuchel We'll get you back on again another time because there's a lot more to your story I can tell you got 2 other kids for a start and um  |  you know I know you're doing a lot of work in this area and I want to hear about the psychology and all of that in the future. So we'll talk again and we'll see you in the world of facebook.
 | 01:05:09.24 Tania Waring Oh thank you so much Lou absolutely what a pleasure and best of and best of luck with you all the work that you're doing lou raising the awareness fighting the fight you know  |  Honestly  |  it's so important. It's so yeah.  |   |   |   | 
 | 01:05:15.40 louisekuchel Ah  |  you're welcome. Well thank you so much for being here.  |   | 
 | 01:05:23.81 louisekuchel Being a pain in the eyess. Ah well I can't stop. Um I Just can't whatever hyperfocus it is I don't know but I'm just going to keep going because it feels like it's we're getting somewhere you know so I'm just going to keep doing it. Yeah well thank you for being here and.
 | 01:05:28.42 Tania Waring But we have to be right? Yeah nine. Yeah yeah  |  that's right  |  yeah  |  we'll March on.  |   |   |   | 
 | 01:05:43.80 louisekuchel Once again confirming we're doing the right thing all right I'll sign us off  |  don't you go anywhere. Thanks everyone for listening signing off now by tanya.
 | 01:05:44.10 Tania Waring Doing the right things. Thank you Lou! Okay bye.  |